Quest 2 Feedback

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k6chris
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Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:20 pm

Had a chance to try Condor on the Quest 2 today, here is my initial feedback. I can't compare the Quest 2 to the original Quest, but in standalone mode using the supplied apps, the visuals are a lot clearer than either the CV1 or Rift S. Colours were bright, very little screen-door effect and it seemed to have a wider FOV than the Rift S? Certainly it did not have the same 'looking through a tube' feeling experienced in the Rift S. The headset is OK in terms of comfort, not as front-heavy as I thought it might be. Audio was pefectly adequate. Overall, very impressed and a definite improvement over earlier Oculus headsets.

Connecting the Q2 via a USB A to USB C cable and enabling the 'Link' mode was simple and worked first time. A high speed, non-Oculus cable (circa £12) showed 1.1Gbs throughput, which is plenty. This mode brought up the old "Rift-S" home and access to all those PC based Oculus apps, including Condor 2.

The visuals in Condor 2 looked similar to the Rift-s, namely an easier to read instrument panel over the CV1, but I don't think any better? FPS was showing at about 65 FPS, driven by my GTX 1060 3Gb GPU. Head tracking seemed a little more juddery than with the Rift-S, although that might have been a latency issue with the passthrough and rendering of the images on the Quest?? There was certainly less of a screen-door effect and less of the 'looking through a tube'. Overall though I did not feel the overal experience was any better than the Rift-s, perhaps a little worse due to the 'head tracking' judders? Very usable, just not as good as I was hoping for, and not really a step up from the Rift S.

One caveat, the GTX 1060 3Gb is not a supported card for using Link to the Quest 2, according to Oculus, so I would be interested to hear the feedback from other Q2 users with better garphics cards. Does Condor 2 need an update to support the higher resolution in the Q2?? I expect the Quest 2 to get further updates, including unlocking of the 90Hz refresh rate, which may change things.

I really hope to hear from other Quest 2 Condor users and get their input / feedback.

Thanks
Chris

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BOD1
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by BOD1 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:02 pm

I read 90Hz is already enabled, go to Settings / Beta (or similar)
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k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:15 pm

Some more feedback on the Quest 2 and Condor, both in terms of graphics quality and frame rate.

Frame rate - The good news is that the Quest 2 has a much higher screen resolution that any of its siblings.... 1832 x 1920 per eye. That's 2.7x the pixels of the original Rift and nearly twice that of the Rift S. Oculus have lowered the max frame rate on the Rift S from 90 to 80 and on the Quests down to 72, but even given this there in over twice as much going on with the Quest 2 over the Rift S! (Yes, I know it’s not a simple as that....) Net of all that is that my GPU, a 3Gb GTX 1060, which creamed the original Rift and coped OK with the Rift S, is struggling with getting above a frame rate of between 55 and 65 depending on Condor settings. This should not have been a surprise to me, but it was! Previous threads on the Rift S, which commented that the 1060 was not really powerful enough, were probably correct then and definitely correct now! I'm sticking a finger in the air but at least an RTX 2060 or possibly 2070 might be required to drive a Quest 2??? Thoughts welcome.

Graphics quality - I have been using the readability of the writing on the instrument panel of the default Duo Discus as a metric of image quality. The Super Sampling setting on the Oculus Tool Tray seems to have the best impact on this, with a value of 1.5 on the tray tool and disabling the Condor MSSA seeming to give the best results? In my initial feedback I had forgotten to set this. Ignoring the frame rate the readability is now at least as good as the Rift S with SS set at this level.

I am in the process of borrowing a Rift S and (hopefully) a different graphics card, so I can do some more testing. I have high hopes that once Oculus release the 90Hz refresh rate for all developers and I have a GPU that can drive it, the Quest 2 should be very special for Condor.

Anyone else using a Quest 2 yet??

robo
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by robo » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:01 pm

90 hz can be enabled using sidequest tho' not official and comes with the usual caveats. Awaiting an imminent delivery as I type so haven't had a chance to try it yet.
https://uploadvr.com/90hz-games-oculus- ... l-desktop/
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ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:57 am

Regarding "jutters", try running Condor through Revive/Steam. I had the same or similar problem with my Quest 1 when running natively, but it's very smooth via revive which is a huge improvement. Running it directly caused serious frame drops, not in Condor, but at the VR level. You can use the Oculus debug tool to see if the frame drops are the issue for you as well.

I also tried launching it directly with Virtual Desktop, but Condor throws no hmd detected error.

I wonder if Condor is using an old version of the Oculus SDK that needs to be updated for better support of Quest and/or Virtual Desktop.

It was a bit of a struggle to get revive working, but it worked with an older version of revive (1.8 I believe).

My quest 2 should be arriving very soon, so I will test with that as well on both native oculus and revive methods, and with Virtual Desktop.

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:24 pm

Well Condor 2 on the Quest 2 gets more curious! I have managed to borrow a much more powerful GPU ( GTX 1080 Ti vs GTX 1060), which has about twice the processing power. Running Condor 2 (using the Ridge lesson as a benchmark) I still "only" get about 55-60 FPS, which is very similar to that seen on the GTX1060. The look and feel is very similar too. Looking at the Windows Task monitor performance tab, it shows (averaging out) the following:

GPU 25% (GTX 1080 Ti)
CPU 20% (Ryzen 5 1600 x)
Memory 40% (16gb 3200)
The Link cable test shows a throughput of 1.2Gbs

The Quest 2 is supposed to be capped at the moment at 72 FPS, so something else is causing the bottleneck? Interestingly if I set ASW to 45 FPS (half of 90 Hz) in the Oculus Tray Tool, it caps the frame rate at 36 (half of the 72 limit).
The image quality is very good, using a “default super sampling” of 1.3 in the OTT, much better that the Rift S.

I can only assume the FPS bottleneck is in the decoding of the images sent to the Quest 2, but why??
I would welcome feedback from other Quest and Quest 2 users as to what FPS (Shift D to display on Condor) they are getting??
The Link function is still in Beta, so it should get better, hopefully.

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:22 am

Hi Chris,

Did you see my previous post about needing to launch/inject Condor via Revive 1.8? I expect that this would fix things for you as well. You have way more than enough power with the 1080ti, as Condor is not very demanding.

I received my Quest 2 today (after amazon.ca bungled up the shipping) and tested it out briefly. Here are my initial results. I am using a low/mid-range gaming PC with a 1660 Super. I think most the Condor graphic settings were maxed out.

1. Using Link and launching natively: Condor FPS is around 65fps, but constant dropped frames on the VR compositor side making it very juddery and unpleasant. Same thing as the Quest 1, though I think the Condor FPS may have been closer to 72 on that.

2. Using Link and launching by Revive injection: Same as Q1, runs steady and smooth at 72 HZ / FPS (better resolution of course on the Q2). Link is restricted to 72hz until Oculus issues an update

3. Using Virtual Desktop with 90hz enabled via sidequest, launching by Revive injection: Awesome! Condor runs steady and smoothly at 90 FPS (I need to try with more clouds yet though). Turning up the resolution/sampling in Steam and it still seems to hold at 90FPS. Way better than the Q1 where VD would stutter occasionally from the latency.

Running the extra layers of Revive and Steam to get a native Oculus product to work with its own SDK seems pretty circuitous, but in the end it works OK. Again, my assumption is that Condor is using an older SDK that doesn't play well with the link (or something). It'd be nice if it would launch directly with Virtual Desktop too. Maybe the devs will see this and be able to comment.

Other impressions with the Quest 2:
- on the wider IPD setting you can see the outer edges of the LCD panels. For some reason looking through a square instead of a circle really breaks immersion for me, especially in Condor. Using the glasses adapter helps quite a bit as does a lower IPD setting.
- the Link and Virtual Desktop seem to run better overall, the PC doesn't seem like it has to work as hard (ie. Games with Higher graphic settings seem to generally run smoother than the Q1).
- the Elite Strap (it's nice) is a must in my mind. I don't like the new strap at all, but this is compounded by the smaller face plate and headset not fitting as well on my big head as the Q1.

johngfoster
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by johngfoster » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:57 am

Is there any way to connect the Quest 2 to the computer with Blue Tooth or WiFi or some other wireless connection instead of using the Link cable?

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:42 am

ryanwoodie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:22 am
Hi Chris,

Did you see my previous post about needing to launch/inject Condor via Revive 1.8? I expect that this would fix things for you as well. You have way more than enough power with the 1080ti, as Condor is not very demanding.

I received my Quest 2 today (after amazon.ca bungled up the shipping) and tested it out briefly. Here are my initial results. I am using a low/mid-range gaming PC with a 1660 Super. I think most the Condor graphic settings were maxed out.

1. Using Link and launching natively: Condor FPS is around 65fps, but constant dropped frames on the VR compositor side making it very juddery and unpleasant. Same thing as the Quest 1, though I think the Condor FPS may have been closer to 72 on that.

2. Using Link and launching by Revive injection: Same as Q1, runs steady and smooth at 72 HZ / FPS (better resolution of course on the Q2). Link is restricted to 72hz until Oculus issues an update

3. Using Virtual Desktop with 90hz enabled via sidequest, launching by Revive injection: Awesome! Condor runs steady and smoothly at 90 FPS (I need to try with more clouds yet though). Turning up the resolution/sampling in Steam and it still seems to hold at 90FPS. Way better than the Q1 where VD would stutter occasionally from the latency.

Running the extra layers of Revive and Steam to get a native Oculus product to work with its own SDK seems pretty circuitous, but in the end it works OK. Again, my assumption is that Condor is using an older SDK that doesn't play well with the link (or something). It'd be nice if it would launch directly with Virtual Desktop too. Maybe the devs will see this and be able to comment.

Other impressions with the Quest 2:
- on the wider IPD setting you can see the outer edges of the LCD panels. For some reason looking through a square instead of a circle really breaks immersion for me, especially in Condor. Using the glasses adapter helps quite a bit as does a lower IPD setting.
- the Link and Virtual Desktop seem to run better overall, the PC doesn't seem like it has to work as hard (ie. Games with Higher graphic settings seem to generally run smoother than the Q1).
- the Elite Strap (it's nice) is a must in my mind. I don't like the new strap at all, but this is compounded by the smaller face plate and headset not fitting as well on my big head as the Q1.
Hi Ryan, thanks for this. I am struggling to work out how to do this?! I am using Revive 1.9.2 and can see a revive button in the Steam VR "VR" menu and the Library with Condor in. The instructions on this forum say "drag and drop Condor into Revive" but I have no idea what this means? Is this an action in the VR world, in which case how? On my PC am I dragging a condor shortcut into the Revive Overlay window?? If I try right clicking the Revive tray tool and select Inject.... I get the "Error initializing Direct3D" error message.

Really appreciate any help, but can it really be this difficult????!

Thanks!

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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by BOD1 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:37 pm

johngfoster wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:57 am
Is there any way to connect the Quest 2 to the computer with Blue Tooth or WiFi or some other wireless connection instead of using the Link cable?
Virtual Desktop, but I didn't succeed to run Condor yet.
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ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:44 pm

Hi Chris,

It was a hassle to me as well, I had to dig through the forums for a while to figure it out. The solution was using Revive 1.8, as 1.9.2 did not work - it gave the direct3d error after starting the flight.

Using the tray tool to inject should work fine once you have Revive 1.8. But try following the steps (copying revive files/folder to condor directory) in the Condor manual if there are any problems. As per the manual, I have a copy of reviveinjector_x64.exe in my Condor directory and I just drag and drop condor.exe onto it (no need to launch steam first). I have shortcuts in windows and Steam, but find I just use the drag and drop anyway.

Turn MSAA off in graphic settings as well.

You'd mentioned you turned supersampling up to 1.5 in debugtools. That seems really high. Maybe not for Condor, but perhaps put it back to 1 if you have any issues.

BOD1, you have to do the same thing for virtual desktop - launch Condor via revive 1.8

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:49 pm

Hi Ryan, thanks. Good news, I have it working in 72 FPS mode and it is VERY good! I cannot get the 90 FPS option via sidequest as I get taken back to the Q2 home screen and when I try to get back via Link I either get "Oculus System Drive Stopped" or "Oculus Link Has Stopped Working" error messages. Not too worried about that as I will wait for native 90hz support.

Condor on the Quest 2 via Steam VR and Revive is SO MUCH BETTER than the native support!

I am using Revive 1.8.1 and it seems to work well. For the terminally stupid, like myself, I have tried to make the instructions clearer to help others:

Turn on your Quest

On your PC, Start SteamVR

From your Quest, access the Link mode, via settings. This will take you to the Steam VR home screen.

From that SteamVR home screen (on your headset) select the Revive tab (you may need to use the menu button on the left hand controller to see this option)

From your PC file manager, Drag and drop the Condor.exe file onto to ReviveInjector_x64.exe (for a 64bit machine/OS)

The Condor app will now appear on your PC, select the flight you wish to make.

Once loaded, Condor 2 Will now appear on your quest headset

Fly!

Thanks again.

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:08 pm

That is great to hear that you got it working. I thought you'd enjoy the massive difference! I was getting worried after a few hours that I'd have to just live with the jerkiness.

90hz only works with Virtual Desktop, until Oculus issues a patch. 90hz is pretty awesome, but unless you get lucky (or just enjoy tinkering like I do) Virtual Desktop can take a bit of work (with wi-fi settings especially) to get the latency down. You could always buy Virtual Desktop and refund it if curious though. Being wireless on Condor isn't a huge feature as a seated experience of course.

With how powerful the XR chipset is in the Quest 2 (I've read that it rivals 2016 PCVR specs), and how incredibly efficient Condor seems to run, I bet it would run would run pretty great as a native Quest title. I'm biased of course to flying, but Condor is so incredible as an immersive VR experience (cloud flying feels so realistic that I can get lost just free-flying in Condor and not want to come down haha), that perhaps there could be some chance that (with creative thinking on the gaming elements) that it would have a wider appeal to the rapidly growing Quest market.

Regarding your instructions, once one has the proper components (Steam, Oculus, Revive 1.8.1) installed, you can just launch by dragging and dropping condor.exe to reviveinjector. It will load Steam VR, etc, on its own. Saves a few steps.

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:53 pm

Update - 72 FPS via the Revive / Steam route is rock solid on my original GTX 1060 3Gb GPU!

cvvs
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by cvvs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:21 pm

Glad to hear that Quest-2 works well with condor.
I'm waiting for my quest, I'm going to let go of my Rift-S which still gives me a lot of pleasure.

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