Condor - cheating issue

[havet865]

Good morning everyone,

Opening the following thread to talk with you about potential cheating issues in Condor.

We are closely monitoring what is going on in other eSports races worldwide (sailing, motorsports, FIFA…), to see which challenges they are facing and how we should overcome them one day if it happens in Virtual Gliding.
This weekend has been a very bad weekend for motorsports eSports with a cheating issue and several technical issues (see the other post).

F1 eSports pilots Dani Moreno and Jarno Opmeer have spotted a cheating issue during the livestreaming of a mixed amateur/professional eSports contest (PremierSim GL).
The issue is not easy to spot for someone who does not play the F1 game at a pro level, but it was easy for them to spot it.

Jarno said about the incident:
"This one was really easy to catch as he was driving like a potato. Had to lift turn 1 missed half of the apexes, Had no minimum speed all lap, line through maggots and baggots was terrible. All of this and yet this lap would have been enough for like P10 on the F1 Esports grid. But the main thing to actually see is a lack of slip angle on the front tires when they obviously turn too much or get near the limit. Having traction of the average top fuel drag car is a bit obvious as well."

Would you be able to spot it yourself? I doubt it, even if you're an F1 fan.

You can watch the video below:
https://twitter.com/DaniMorenoF1/status ... mOoWWOAfQA

There was a quick and fair response from the organizers after the event, when this was spotted by pro players: the driver has been removed from leagues with immediate effect = banned to all events.

We have launched a 'Pilot's Handbook' guide for our next event, the 'World Series 2023'.
It is something that has been done for other eSports (FIFA, F1...) and this document is needed to cover such cases (cheating, relations between players, teams and organizers, legal disputes). This document is meant to protect everyone involved in the races and has to be followed to allow the project to grow. There might be a cash prize one day, and there may be professional teams and professional e-airsports pilots in the future too. It just depends on how we manage to make the sport grow as a community, and how much support there is from the fans and public as well.

You may have a look at it on our website: https://www.virtualgliding.fai.org/world-series

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Now onto cheating issues in Condor!

We are working very closely with the Condor developpement team (including Uros) to limit the possibility of cheating in any race.
We have some secret tools and there are experienced pilots and organizers running the events, who have been running daily races for years.

I strongly invite pilots who may be aware of cheating in any FAI VG event to come forward via our email address: fai.virtual.gliding@gmail.com so that we can evaluate the issue and communicate accordingly.

We have been aware of an issue related to 'external view' since the beginning of FAI races: some pilots are using the external view to get a clear view of what is ahead, which goes against the gliding game. De-zooming should not be done to get a proper advantage on other competitors.

We have allowed external view to pilots so that they can be more comfortable in the air and avoid mid-air collisions. It is also more fun to take screenshots from the outside to showcase the sport and show to your friends what you/we are doing

We will not change the rule and not apply penalties for this, because it is something we supported... and we knew that some would try to take advantage of it as well. Does it give a clear advantage if you can see 15 minutes ahead, while Condor is refreshing the weather every 15 min or so? There are discussions about it as well.

We will continue having discussions about this issue in the coming days and we will allow it (or not) for the World Series.
Anyone who wants to talk about this issue or any other issue below is invited to do so to try to influence our minds

One thing is almost certain though, for very competitive and restricted events with limited pilots: we will disable the external view to counter this issue. (ie. VSGP - World Final)

You may react here or preferably directly in our 'Discussion' posts on Discord: https://discord.gg/5qr9V9dBYS

Thanks for your feedback!
Have a good week,

Antoine

[Paul_UK]

My views on external view.

The point of Condor to me is it is a simulator and in competitions should reflect RL as close as possible. When competing under FAI rules in qualifying rounds / the world finals etc things should be made as close to RL as possible. As long as the world series tasks do not have any bearing on which pilots enter the world finals then I see where you're coming from ref leaving external view enabled. Ref the 15min thing, as far as I am aware once a thermal has began forming it will not move position, even when the weather is updated so what you see ahead thermal wise is what you'll get. Please correct me though if I am wrong in my understanding of the weather update.

If you wanted to disable on all FAI tasks then you could have a trusted team member view as a spectator to take screenshots etc of the race. Those could be uploaded to your site so pilots could then share images with their friends.

As you've been looking into other eSports, in the driving community do they allow external view? I've only ever seen drivers driving from cockpit view in the limited videos I've seen. Same for me when I used to drive in Assetto Corsa, I only used cockpit view. It'd be interesting to know what the other eSports allow in this respect.

[Kekelekou]

The unfair external view is not the close-up to take a nice screenshot, but the maxed zoom-out that allows for weather reconnaissance and situation awareness. I suppose it wouldn't be too complicated to limit the available zoom-out value available for all players who are flying the task.
A password protected "unrestricted" external view could be implemented for the official broadcasters for educational and dramatisation purposes

[havet865]

The unfair external view is not the close-up to take a nice screenshot, but the maxed zoom-out that allows for weather reconnaissance and situation awareness. I suppose it wouldn't be too complicated to limit the available zoom-out value available for all players who are flying the task.
A password protected "unrestricted" external view could be implemented for the official broadcasters for educational and dramatisation purposes

100% correct. That would be ideal, but I think Uros is working on other stuff now

For the F1 eSports followers, there has been another big cheating issue the past few days.
Looks like some users have a cheating tool allowing them to get extra grip during the races... hence going at a much greater speed than usual into the corners. Very worrying because they don't find a solution yet, they can ban the cheaters but that's it.

Reminder: that is our policy here as well, banning cheating competitors.

[Michael McKay (MJ)]

I mentioned this on Discord but didn't get a reply there - apologies for the duplication. Is there an issue with the live streaming? The live stream of the 7:30pm time slot, especially for the tasks where the terrain and wind play a large part, can give a tactical advantage to players who are in the following time slots the next day. It might be better to delay the stream to the last slot - you'd then be able to compare all three races.

[maymar]

It might be better to delay the stream to the last slot - you'd then be able to compare all three races.

+1

[Snapcase]

I mentioned this on Discord but didn't get a reply there - apologies for the duplication. Is there an issue with the live streaming? The live stream of the 7:30pm time slot, especially for the tasks where the terrain and wind play a large part, can give a tactical advantage to players who are in the following time slots the next day. It might be better to delay the stream to the last slot - you'd then be able to compare all three races.

+1