Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Moderators: Bre901, snip, havet865

Post Reply
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:43 am

Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Post by CristianoConrado » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:25 pm

Hello guys,

The SGP in Livno is being incredible and it is fulfilling everything that is programmed in the rules and the model already established, however, I believe that in order to get the most that Condor can offer us in immersion, some changes would be possible:

1 - No visible icons - We can reset the distance of the icons and we would control our collision risks by the FLARM/PDA, which would keep the tracking distance as in real life (6-12Km).
This would not interfere with spectator mode or broadcasts, as the icon restriction rules do not apply to it.
For such a change, we depend on a change in Condor, which links the distance of visible icons with the tracking distance by the FLARM/PDA. No icons = no FLARM/PDA.
We need to change that to open up this possibility.
As some FLARMs already include an identification of the surrounding gliders, a number or a color could be added to the glider symbol itself in the FLARM/PDA.
This would bring an increase in realism and curb some undesirable behavior among competitors.

2 - We have numerous navigation features on Condor's PDA - Visible turning points is a suitable aid for beginners, not SGP/FAI level races.
I suggest disabling this.

3 - Like turning points, visibility of penalty zones is unnecessary and can be bypassed with the alarm setup on XCSoar, LK8000 or other PDA.
COTACO already automatically creates the file with the Penalty Zones of the race.

4 - No real time score - It give important information in a unreal way, about all other pilots. Disabling it do not affect the spectator mode.

I reinforce that all the points presented here are suggestions and in no way does it not recognize the effort and quality of the organization of the SGP FAI.


Cristiano [CON]
Last edited by CristianoConrado on Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:43 am

Re: Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Post by CristianoConrado » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:30 pm

5 - Disable the F5 view: Someones can check altitude and thermal strenght of pilots ahead, choose to stay on actual thermal or not, even not take the detour other piilots did for a weak one.
If it is there enable, people will use it.
Not ideal setup for a fair race.
In the end of the day, seconds can be the diference of 2 or 5 positions / 200-500 points.

Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:29 am

Re: Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Post by CircusOz » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:48 am

Cristiano, thank you for live streaming the competition. Its very informative to watch in real time how the best pilots approach the same task. As a relative novice there is much in these videos to absorb and learn .

2) I assume you mean the visible blue cylinders / barber shop poles that go from ground to sky on the landscape visible outside the cockpit ? As a spectator watching a livestream they are useful because it shows you what the pilot is aiming for . As a spectator we can't always see the xcsoar screen or choose PDA screen number 1 at any given moment to see where the glider is in the scheme of things . But as a competitor it doesn't imitate the real world .

4) Real time scores : very useful to a spectator . It emphasises the excitement of the race.

In almost all other sports that I can think of live scores are part and parcel of the contest . Its what makes them . Whether its soccer , table tennis , chess , athletics , etc everyone is aware of one's position in the contest in real time. I can't imagine how any of these sports would be conducted without known scores. Technology has now made gliding similar in this respect .

One perspective: if I'm trailing the leaders , the score tells me I must improve . If I'm leading there is added pressure if I see those behind catching up .

Again , thank you for your streams , they offer a window into how the masters fly and gives the novices like me an opportunity to do much better.

Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:43 am

Re: Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Post by CristianoConrado » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:02 am

Thank you for the answer.

The oficial FAI live stream transmission, has all the icons / turnpoint alowed and they can acess all the pilots live streams.

They have all options of view: satelite view with names and trail lines enabled, external view, cockpit view.

They have all the tools to make the trasmission interesting.
The unreal view option do not need to be available to the pilots.

The real time score for the players could be a reality for many sports, but not for soaring races yet. The spectator can keep acess to it, but not the pilots.

We can see there is people ahead of us by PDA/FLARM, but not all the details, altitude, speed, vario info...

You need to remember, knowing the relative position of a glider in front and above you it is not a big factor when you have a regata start but in a race with start window makes not clear if someone is faster than you or not. It change your decisions during the race, so: removing tab score is not as relevant for SGP (Regata), as removing icons, visible turnpoints areas and F5 view.


Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:35 am

Re: Suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI

Post by ROC » Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:41 pm

Hello guys,

I often watch streams of Cristiano races, and I always learn something from his pertinent/technical comments, while I have a lot of fun listening to his surgical and fine humor.

I agree with all his suggestions for the organization of the SGP FAI. (which aim to make the competitions more realistic, from the competitor's point of view)
By the way, these suggestions are already being tested and successfully implemented by the team. on racing tasks everyday.

Server [C2] TRIPS opening at 19:00 UTC.


Rogerio [ROC]

Post Reply