Quest 2 Feedback

Discussion about VR

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Mas
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by Mas » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:38 am

Chris - read my other theread - you are encounteringt the same problem as me . No matter what I do , even though I'm getting up to 80% headroom I can't get Condor to show more than an average of 60fps - I can't sync at 72 hz or up and drooped VR frames at a rate of 700 ish a minute ( which equals the 12hz difference X 60 seconds ) .

I believe there is a problem with the VR implementation and it might be due partly to the app being tied to the desktop monitor ( which I can't switch off in Monitor settings ) which is forcing the the whole thing to bottleneck at 60 HZ .

You have a much better card than me and you still can't get the Quest 2 to sync at even 72 hz ( we now have the option of up to 90hz ) .

Lets pool information and resources and get to the bottom of it . Hammering your GPU and forcing the HMD into ASW mode at 45fps ( 36 fps ?), by running a high SS to stop dropping frames is not the answer !

Condor is not that hungry on resources - we should be having a butter smooth experience with no slight stuttering or dropped VR frames - with a decent card should be able to sync solid in VR at 90hz .

I think we can ignore the shift D FPS display as having not much to do with VR - provably what FPS we'd be getting with your desktop monitor displaying the flight .

Mark

k6chris wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:24 pm
Well Condor 2 on the Quest 2 gets more curious! I have managed to borrow a much more powerful GPU ( GTX 1080 Ti vs GTX 1060), which has about twice the processing power. Running Condor 2 (using the Ridge lesson as a benchmark) I still "only" get about 55-60 FPS, which is very similar to that seen on the GTX1060. The look and feel is very similar too. Looking at the Windows Task monitor performance tab, it shows (averaging out) the following:

GPU 25% (GTX 1080 Ti)
CPU 20% (Ryzen 5 1600 x)
Memory 40% (16gb 3200)
The Link cable test shows a throughput of 1.2Gbs

The Quest 2 is supposed to be capped at the moment at 72 FPS, so something else is causing the bottleneck? Interestingly if I set ASW to 45 FPS (half of 90 Hz) in the Oculus Tray Tool, it caps the frame rate at 36 (half of the 72 limit).
The image quality is very good, using a “default super sampling” of 1.3 in the OTT, much better that the Rift S.

I can only assume the FPS bottleneck is in the decoding of the images sent to the Quest 2, but why??
I would welcome feedback from other Quest and Quest 2 users as to what FPS (Shift D to display on Condor) they are getting??
The Link function is still in Beta, so it should get better, hopefully.

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:23 pm

k6chris wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:05 am
Removing the Logical Processors (turn SMT off) and running in VR mode I get following:

It makes no difference to the VR framerate however :(

Chris
Chris,

I'm curious here: Does turning off SMT improve the flatscreen FPS?

I'm running 90hz, max detail in Condor and maximum resolution in Link settings and it's been super smooth (i5-8600 and RTX 2080 however).

I'm guessing your GPU is just a bit underpowered. With Link it seems there some aspect that bottlenecks and doesn't allow full GPU usage (not just for Condor)

Ryan

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm

ryanwoodie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:23 pm

I'm curious here: Does turning off SMT improve the flatscreen FPS?

I'm running 90hz, max detail in Condor and maximum resolution in Link settings and it's been super smooth (i5-8600 and RTX 2080 however).

I'm guessing your GPU is just a bit underpowered. With Link it seems there some aspect that bottlenecks and doesn't allow full GPU usage (not just for Condor)

Ryan
Turning off SMT made a few more FPS but nothing significant and may have just been a random difference? Re the GPU, even with a humble 1660 Super the monitor is only showing 30% utilisation, so still not sure where the bottleneck is? I have now tried 5 different GPUs (beg, stolen or borrowed!) and pretty much the results are the same. The original Rift would work at 90 FPS from a 1050 Ti, so I am not sure it is a pure Condor thing.

Ryan, are you using a cable connection or virtual desktop??

Chris

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staslos
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by staslos » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:53 pm

I’m using Oculus Rift CVT1 with 5 year old computer i7 and GeForce 970. It’s been good so far, but I’ve been looking into upgrade options. Until Condor supports SteamVR natively the only choice we have for VR upgrade is Oculus headsets. Hence big interest in Quest 2. I see you guys having lots of issues setting it properly, so I did some research on my own and found following link that goes in to details how to reach the best quality over Quest 2 link configuration https://uploadvr.com/how-to-oculus-link-best-quality/ .
My take, use USB3 or USB-C on video card, ensure 90Hz refresh rate in settings, and use GeForce 2000 series or higher, because previous generations cards have inferior codecs to encode video signal. You can also play with bitrate settings to reduce compression artifacts, but as of now it’s still a trade off, unless you can reach 500Mbps without other issues.
Quite an upgrade in the end :)

patjordan
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by patjordan » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Chris,

I could not find posts re Revive Helper. Can you provide some detailed steps to use this?

Thanks a-lot,

Pat

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:21 am

k6chris wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Ryan, are you using a cable connection or virtual desktop??
Chris
I primarily use Link for Condor, but have also used VD.

Are you having trouble getting 72fps with these cards, or are you just trying to get it up to 90hz?

Ryan

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:05 am

staslos wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:53 pm
I’m using Oculus Rift CVT1 with 5 year old computer i7 and GeForce 970. It’s been good so far, but I’ve been looking into upgrade options. Until Condor supports SteamVR natively the only choice we have for VR upgrade is Oculus headsets. Hence big interest in Quest 2. I see you guys having lots of issues setting it properly, so I did some research on my own and found following link that goes in to details how to reach the best quality over Quest 2 link configuration https://uploadvr.com/how-to-oculus-link-best-quality/ .
My take, use USB3 or USB-C on video card, ensure 90Hz refresh rate in settings, and use GeForce 2000 series or higher, because previous generations cards have inferior codecs to encode video signal. You can also play with bitrate settings to reduce compression artifacts, but as of now it’s still a trade off, unless you can reach 500Mbps without other issues.
Quite an upgrade in the end :)
Thanks for this. I have done all of this, inc the RTX2060 and bitrate, but still locked at 45 FPS! All input very welcome. To be clear, the Quest 2 is a huge upgrade from the CV1 and it would run on your set up (I have tested a GTX970 too!). But you would need to use the Revive / Steam route and likely you would get the 45 FPS. Very playable, much better than the CV1, but not native and not the full 90hz.

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:08 am

ryanwoodie wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:21 am
k6chris wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Ryan, are you using a cable connection or virtual desktop??
Chris
I primarily use Link for Condor, but have also used VD.

Are you having trouble getting 72fps with these cards, or are you just trying to get it up to 90hz?

Ryan
If I try to get 72Hz, it gets locked down to 32. Attempts to get 90Hz delivers 45. Not sure if the Oculus software or the Steam VR code is forcing the ASW degrade?

Update - wave flying today - (17.2 knots on the averager at 18,000ft!) and noticed I had a solid 90 FPS!! I guess due to the lower detail being rendered?? Went back down to 45 FPS as I decended. Still, hopeful that the 45 FPS is not locked in!
Last edited by k6chris on Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:09 am

patjordan wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:05 pm
Chris,

I could not find posts re Revive Helper. Can you provide some detailed steps to use this?

Thanks a-lot,

Pat
There is detailed thread here

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=19133

The tool is VERY good!

ryanwoodie
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:47 am

Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:16 pm

k6chris wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:08 am
If I try to get 72Hz, it gets locked down to 32. Attempts to get 90Hz delivers 45. Not sure if the Oculus software or the Steam VR code is forcing the ASW degrade?
You should be able to get 90hz, at least at medium resolution, with the 2060.

With the 1660 super (and ryzen 3600) I had for a bit, it could do 72hz. I don't think ASW kicked in very often at all. At 90hz ASW kicked in when closer to the scenery, etc.

What type of performance are you getting on other VR games? (Turn on the performance HUD in debug tools)

I think either you are CPU bottlenecked, or something else is going on.

If the latter, here are a few random suggestions:

- set the VR processes as high (condor.exe, vrcompositor, vrserver, OVRserver_x64.exe, etc). Even test out realtime priority with some of them. "Process lasso" is a great tool for this stuff.
- turn off the "mirror" screen in "Setup VR" in condor
- set debug tools setting to defaults (eg. No extra super sampling)
- make sure Steam, Oculus software and Nvidia drivers are all up to date
- remove GeForce experience (use the Nvidia drivers only)
- try a "clean boot" in windows 10
- install or dual boot a fresh copy of windows 10...
- try a USB 3 port on the back of the Mobo instead of the front case

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:49 pm

Not sure if Quest 2 has had a recent software update, or Nvidia, or both, but my 16Gb RAM, 3500x CPU + 1660 Ti GPU combo is now nailed on 90Hz for Condor 2, only very occasionally falling back to 45 FPS ASW. Performance monitor on the headset shows approx 20% performance headroom. This is via the Revive / Steam route. Interestingly I also tried a 3060Ti and was not impressed, probably early drivers (Oculus don't officially support 30 series cards yet).

Native support would still be good though!

Chris

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:43 pm

Chris,

It looks like you are using a more powerful CPU now? Perhaps that is the reason?

Ryan

k6chris
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by k6chris » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 am

ryanwoodie wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:43 pm

It looks like you are using a more powerful CPU now? Perhaps that is the reason?

Ryan
Hi Ryan, yes that could be the case. I upgraded from the 1600x because a) I fancied having a bash at upgrading a CPU and b) it has a much better single core power. I have tried both the 3060Ti and 1660Ti using this CPU and the 1660Ti performs as well (if not better) than the much more powerful 3060Ti. Go figure! Anyway, I can recommend my set up as being an excellent combination for Condor 2 on Quest 2, really very pleased!

ryanwoodie
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by ryanwoodie » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:19 pm

Hi Chris,

This does seem to point to CPU/single core bottlenecking being the major performance issue with Condor, even in VR.

It would be interesting to put the 1060 (if I recall correctly you using that) in with new CPU and see how it performs.

Ryan

Bas.T
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Re: Quest 2 Feedback

Post by Bas.T » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:18 pm

How is the Quest 2 performance nowadays? I currently have a ryzen 5 3600 with 32gb ram and a rtx 2070 super and I'm holding off on the purchase of condor until I know exactly what I'm buying in terms of VR performance as I am planning to fly in VR.

-Bas

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