VR Nausea - plea to devs!

[k6chris]

I have just noticed what might be a cause of the VR nausea that some people have commented on, even when achieving a sustained 90 fps.

In Condor "2D", turbulence etc is simulated by the nose of the glider moving slightly, "shaking" relative to the viewer. For example if you drew a dot on the screen where the centre top of the panel was, then it would drift from side to side / up and down as the pilot was turning or experiencing turbulence. This effect works well on a screen. In VR mode, this simulation still exists, but the effect, which enhancing the realism is 2D mode, creates a huge feeling of nausea in VR mode! Is it possible to turn off this feature? This would allow the panel and cockpit frame to always be rendered in the same place (assuming the pilot kept their head still!)?

No idea how easy this would be, but a check-box that could allow this to be enabled / disabled I think would be hugely helpful. Welcome the thoughts of others.

[Lensman]

I must say, I haven't noticed that. I set up a flight with heavy turbulence and the plane was pitching and yawing as you would expect but the cockpit was locked to my viewpoint. Only the landscape was moving if i kept my head still.

[wickid]

I don't have VR myself. But I had a similar problem on my simpit. Try turning down "Auto View Panning" and "View Smoothing" under Setup --> Options

[Mas]

I don't have VR myself. But I had a similar problem on my simpit. Try turning down "Auto View Panning" and "View Smoothing" under Setup --> Options

Thats a great tip will try this and report back !

[Mas]

I'm totally with you on that - experienced this turbulence myself badly after getting a little VR sickness setting in during a short task with lots of 45 degree banking . I flew onto the ridge to get away from the `turbulence' thermal setting and traversing the ridge at 90 knots in the DUO the turbulence was still there even though no clouds above, but had to quit the session as it just got unbearable.

. So perhaps the ridge was `borrowing ' the thermal turbulence setting - or maybe I was flying through `blue' thermals coming off the ridge . So we have two things to try - turn off all turbulence in thermals and see if it affects the ridge as well . Also turn off auto view panning and view smoothing settings as someone with motion platform has mentioned below ( great tip !) Lets see...

Bear in mind that people vary greatly in their susceptibility to sim /VR sickness so some people may not experience it at all or not until they fly a longer task .

It occurred to me how experimental this is as there is no other sim know that models turbulence as well as Condor but I'm sure we will find a solution .

I have just noticed what might be a cause of the VR nausea that some people have commented on, even when achieving a sustained 90 fps.

In Condor "2D", turbulence etc is simulated by the nose of the glider moving slightly, "shaking" relative to the viewer. For example if you drew a dot on the screen where the centre top of the panel was, then it would drift from side to side / up and down as the pilot was turning or experiencing turbulence. This effect works well on a screen. In VR mode, this simulation still exists, but the effect, which enhancing the realism is 2D mode, creates a huge feeling of nausea in VR mode! Is it possible to turn off this feature? This would allow the panel and cockpit frame to always be rendered in the same place (assuming the pilot kept their head still!)?

No idea how easy this would be, but a check-box that could allow this to be enabled / disabled I think would be hugely helpful. Welcome the thoughts of others.

[wickid]

. So perhaps the ridge was `borrowing ' the thermal turbulence setting - or maybe I was flying through `blue' thermals coming off the ridge . So we have two things to try - turn off all turbulence in thermals and see if it affects the ridge as well . Also turn off auto view panning and view smoothing settings as someone with motion platform has mentioned below ( great tip !) Lets see...

There are two turbulence settings in Condor. One for the wind (which affects your plane everywhere), and one for thermals to add extra bumpiness in thermals. My guess is that this task had set up turbulence for the wind, which is realistic on high wind-speed ridge tasks.

[Mas]

There are two turbulence settings in Condor. One for the wind (which affects your plane everywhere), and one for thermals to add extra bumpiness in thermals. My guess is that this task had set up turbulence for the wind, which is realistic on high wind-speed ridge tasks.

Well spotted , thankyou will give it a try.

[Lensman]

All good points. Welcome to VR!
As said above, Condor models turbulence very realistically and it's to be expected that folks will start feeling air sick..that's the reality part of VR.
I've flown VR flight sims for about 2 years now. You need to expose yourself to this new experience gently. Short flights to begin with and if you start feeling uncomfortable stop immediately and take a breather. You will get your VR 'legs' in time.

[Mas]

Ok , update on settings . View smoothing fully on ( far right ) creates a slight sponginess in the nose in reaction to turbulence I think . With slider far left ( off ) the nose movement is more sudden not jerky but there is less acceleration effect . While it feels slightly better in "off" , it still doesn't stop the nauseating effect of the turbulence. I haven;t explored the affect of ' auto view panning ' yet . I have switched it off - it may be disabled in VR like so many things are .

I can report that switching off turbulence in both wind and thermal boxes 100% stop the turbulence - I flew on the ridge without any problem from turbulence . The down side is that it feels very like 'arcade' game with all turbulence off . In fact it just feels in that way like FSX , or Aeroflyte FS2 or any of the flight sims that have nothing like the realistic flight model of Condor .

So I think two things are needed in the future - 1) and option where you can click a checkbox to `disable turbulence in VR ' so that you can fly online tasks without getting 'hammered' by turbulence in VR .

2) perhaps a very much weakened turbulence setting available for VR - the existing `light' setting ' is still too strong - maybe one which use a slider so the pilot can set to their own taste for well being in a task with max effect something below `light'.

@Lensman - Individual ability to adjust to this varies greatly among people .I have many hundreds of hours in VR and flightsims - any slipping or skidding causing the nose to swing still feels bad compared to a well balanced turn . It is the same thing as `stealing the camera ' where the viewpoint -your eye - is suddenly taken over and you lose control of your view which is the #1 fast path to VR sickness.

And the turbulence effect in Condor is just a case of that and probably worse as it moves the nose both up and down and sideways. No problem in a real glider where your vestibular feels those turbulence effects. People have different ability to adjust to this and some never do . If I put in a boot of rudder in a sim my stomach still turns over and that hasn't changed in years and that also applies to the nose wandering in racing sims

[janjansen]

1) and option where you can click a checkbox to `disable turbulence in VR ' so that you can fly online tasks without getting 'hammered' by turbulence in VR .

2) perhaps a very much weakened turbulence setting available for VR -

Thats not going to happen. Turbulence creates extra difficulty, making it harder to maintain constant speed and bank angle. The difficulty will be and should be the same for VR or flat screens, so you might as well ask for stronger thermals for VR pilots.

However, I would not be against a new key binding for VR: "open sick bag"

[Mas]

I thought after I wrote suggestion re disabling turbulence that people would start screaming foul . I guess the only way around it for people have trouble with turbulence in VR is to run server tasks clearly marked for VR with turbulence switched off or very minimal turb. settings (which don't exist yet ). Tasks can be made more difficult to compensate for any `loss' of realism on the turbulence side ,. Must admit that when i use to fly tasks online ( haven't for years ) it seemed mostly all very ``arcady' anyway with the accent on ridiculously fast times amd unrealistic conditions

While `turbulence; may make the task harder , VR sickness from it is a deal breaker for some and unfortunately effect people very differently - so its just never going to be a level playing field with turbulence on .

I guess as the VRCondor community grows there will be a healthy comp. scene will grow in the VR sector and people can choose or not to fly tasks in the mainstream or not .

[berymar]

Do not be angry with me, but you wanted VR, you have it. Stop crying here that you are sick. And do not even think about turning off the turbulence. What do you want to do from this simulator? Toys for children?

[k6chris]

Do not be angry with me, but you wanted VR, you have it. Stop crying here that you are sick. And do not even think about turning off the turbulence. What do you want to do from this simulator? Toys for children?

Sorry Dad......

[OXO]

Do you still get this nausea if you set auto view panning to 0?

[janjansen]

`turbulence; may make the task harder , VR sickness from it is a deal breaker for some

Some people will get sick even without turbulence. Thats not something condor can or should address, its partly the realism of gliding, and partly VR effect.. If you want to fly online competition tasks and you get sick in VR, simply switch to the monitor. BTW, its not like flying in heavy turbulence is a lot of fun on a flat screen, which is why you dont see it very often.

But by all means, do host some VR friendly tasks., Besides turbulence which is not common anyway, I imagine not many will want to fly 3 hour tasks in VR, and shorter tasks would be more suitable. Its not a bad idea to note that in the server name.

Such VR friendly servers will have a quiet chat window I imagine