Can I actually learn in Condor how to pilot the real glider?

[Numberjack]

Hello you all experienced pilots out there (and maybe some instructors - if I'm lucky)

To what extend the experience from Condor can be useful in learning how to fly in the real life?

I'm seriously considering signing up with a local glider club in the spring and I wonder to what extend the time I'm spending learning in Condor will improve my learning curve in the real glider.

Thank you

[EDB]

Flying is easy. The important thing in real life is that you can do it safely. For that you need instruction.

If you are really serious about your real life ambition then I advice you to first contact a club nearby. Start your education in real life and practice in Condor what you learned in real life.
If you do it the other way around it might take more time to go solo because you teached yourself the wrong things in Condor without instruction.

Condor can help you in flying cross country faster. But for that you first have to prove you can fly safely...

[Numberjack]

Thank you very much for your answer.

I've already contacted with a local club and signed up for a ground school.
I'll be more careful with my Condor "flying" now.

[Luxaly]

i think while sims can help as bre said sims tend to make ppl learn bad habits... if i would fly in reality i would likely have an eye on a decent field even when im good with altitude... well and if i would get rich somehow i think i would buy a stemme and if thermals are out i can just take the L and use the engine to get altitude to fly home cause i wouldnt fly for compedition but rather for amusement and scenery and maybe some travel ofc target would be to do tasks without engine but i wouldnt rage if it doesnt work out

[Hanky50]

I have flown quite a bit along the years in Condor. I have not been regular but a bit intense in some periods. One year ago I decided it was a good timing to get the license and I actually did. Currently I have a Ls1-f and have flown 50 hours on it and I have also flown in the with an ASG32 and the planes used in the formation program. Still a lot of learning curve to go through, but I can share my little experience on both sides.

I don't think you know how to fly because you fly in Condor. Not at all. There's accelerations, bumpy days, rotors, ridge wind gusts, etc... that make the experience very different. Turning 45º close min sink with a shaky thermal is very different in real life than in Condor.

Above the physical difference there is the risk management dimension. In Condor you can learn by mistakes. In real life you can make and you will make mistakes, but your life is on the line and the impact in your mind and decision process is huge. You have to learn to escape or not to get trapped in the situations where mistakes are made. Therefore a lot of the mind work during flight is dedicated to have be aware of the risk in play and how to get yourself in a position where there are always plan B and C alternatives.

When low and too far from your takeoff club your mind can play very tricky games to your capacity to decide when and where to land out which is something that in Condor does have any relevance at all.

Having said all of that I think that having flown in Condor helps to accelerate the process in a few ways, if you have flown quite a bit in the simulator:

- You understand the basics of weather, thermal, ridge and maybe wave behaviour and therefore there is some part of the learning process that is done.
- Same thing for plane handling, speed, angle, and so on.
- You have got used to tasks and to flying them. I have seen quite a lot of alumni in my year that are still far from flying a task or to try to fly a task. I have flown small tasks (the longer 150km) but I was flying them almost since I got my license. This is specially the case if you have used software like XCSoar with condor.

I will be coming back to the sim because I think it will help to keep a bit of practice in the dull months and also because I will try to fly more different places, so being able to practice beforehand I think can be quite helpful.

Best regards.

Enrique.

[scottrev]

I was a student at Owl Canyon Gliderport in Colorado and had heard about Scott Manley from the Podcast Soaring the Sky.

I contacted him because I had Condor with VR goggles and was interested in virtual flight instruction.

Scott offers instruction virtually for free and it vastly decreased the time I needed to go solo.

I would never finish a virtual instruction and then go jump in a glider by myself, but you can gain hours of very realistic flight time in the sim to improve your performance in real instruction in a glider.

One important thing it to always fly the sim like the real world, use checklists, mnemonics and call out your radio traffic so you are building muscle memory and good habits. I even call out that all passengers have the seat belts secured since that is a requirement and you will fail a check off if you do not include that.

https://glidercfi.com/

[DanP]

I believe that practicing in Condor while you fly a real plane helps. The simulator will never feel like the real plane, but it can build some good habits (also some bad).
Few tips (my personal opinions only):
I'd avoid joysticks that have dead zones and central "bump". Using a stick like that might build a bad muscle memory. Sadly that means you will need something rather expensive. Note that in my opinion Condor is easily flyable with a cheap stick with dead zone and central bump - if you do not plan to fly a real plane. For the same reason I'd fly only with rudder pedals. Consider to get some good throttle quadrant, too, for more natural airbrakes and trim. Tried to do it with keyboard or joystick buttons but it just did not work for me. A good hall sensor throttles are fortunately not that expensive and you can get some second hand ones, too, in relatively OK shape if you are on budget.
Setting the controls to high sensitivity might help in forcing you into easy and relaxed movements which can help to control the real plane better.
Avoiding any airplane or space shooting games (anything where you need to violently jerk the controls) might be a good idea for the same reason.
If you fly, do everything like during a real flight, like checklists, patterns, even radio (nobody will likely answer unless your gf is a pilot with some sense of humor, but saying what you need to say during certain phases of a real flight might help you later).
I doubt one can learn flying only by practicing on simulator, but I believe it can help to some extent if you are in training.

[DanP]

Oh and there is a nice article on the topic, I think he summarized it all pretty nicely. https://chessintheair.com/why-practice-with-condor/

[marcuslankenau]

I think Condor can be a good tool in addition to learning to fly in a flight school or club. You can use it instead or as a help for mental training. If you have a specific issue, that you instructor explained to you, you can close your eyes, envision being in the cockpit and trying to do things right, where you normally struggle. In my opinion this might be easier in the sim.

I think flying the sim a lot before starting the real flying can also have some disadvantages: Long time ago I used to fly MS Flight Simulator a lot. Then I decided to go for the PPL. In the sim a landing was "finished" for me, when the wheels hit the ground, getting to a stop was not challenging and thus not interesting for me. Then in real flying it took me some landings to get rid of the bad habit (muscle memory) of letting the nose wheel come down after touch down.

Also the accelerations and rotation, that our bodies are experiencing in real flying, can make a big difference. E.g. flying through a cloud (having an artificial horizon) in a sim is peace of cake. In general aviation it is supposed to end fatal after a couple of minutes, without proper training.