ASW27B + ASH26E

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gusandreoni
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ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by gusandreoni » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:30 pm

Gentlemen

I had already requested the development of the ASW27B here and I was criticized by OXO for not being interested in developing (at least in a short time) a glider equal to the ASG29 15 meters.

He decided to play for the community in a poll that would have been developed before.

I was very shocked by the lack of knowledge of OXO to think that the ASW27B and ASG29 15 meters are the same gliders.

The ASW27 and ASH26E 18 meters come from the studies below, it is worth reading for those who like to follow the glider industry.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... PLICATIONS

The difference between the ASG29 15 meters and the ASW27B is basically a study that was launched after the launch of the ASW27 and the ASH26 which is the wing profile in turbulent air, which was launched in the ASW28.

The ASG29 already includes all the corrections and it is already a glider with 15/18 wing that the ASW27 is not.

This kind of thing is an evolution of the industry and each aircraft has its particularity and I wish it to be reproduced here.

I recommend not only the ASW27B in the 15 meter class, but also the ASG29 15 meter with due differences, and to improve the ASH26E in the 18 meter class with engine (only the motorized version exists) the ASW28 has just been updated by Schleischer in a version with wiglets and some fixes too. The AS33 when aircraft material becomes available would be excellent production as well.

I leave here my request for the ASW27B and if I can in the future ASH26E too.

Thanks
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wickid
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by wickid » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:30 pm

The ASW27 and the ASG29 are the same. Schleicher even writes it in the manual... The ASG29 it is pretty much the "C" version of the ASW27. Same fuselage, slightly different wing planform.

If you don't believe it here is the EASA type certificate: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6VLnXOb-2B

Officially the ASG29 is only a marketing name and the actual plane is certified as ASW27-18 (with 15 and 18 meter spans available)

That being said, I understand OXO not wanting to develop 2 gliders who are basically the same. The ASG29 with its small improvements outperforms the 27 anyway so the 27 would be useless.
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by EDB » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:05 pm

The ASW 27-18E manual of the 'so called' "ASG 29 Es"...
2020-04-05 18_00_31-ASG29Es.pdf and 2 more pages ‎- Microsoft Edge.jpg

Later in the manual they explain that there are 'some' improvements. The 'so called' "ASG29" can be flown as an 15m "ASG29-15" and is basically an ASW27 produced in a time the ASW27-18 (ASG29) existed. It only carries other decals.

The same glider produced ten years later has always 'some' things different.

If they really were that different they would have had different EASA type certificates.

PS
The ASW28 was hardly ever flown in Condor v1. I would advice to invest time in other projects. It takes a lot of time to produce a glider for Condor2.
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ASW-28 15m

Post by JShieck » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:15 pm

I understand why it's no effective to make the ASW-27.
But there is no plane like ASW-28 (standart class). I loved flying the 28.
It's a strong competitor to the Discus2
So please make the ASW-28 for standart class.
Would be soo nice! :D
Is there anybody who wanna make it?
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by gusandreoni » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:00 am

Gentlemen,

I imagined that I was talking to people who have a very deep technical knowledge on the subject, but apparently not. Since the aeronautical world began, aircraft designs have been made with minor modifications to the previous aircraft and only the aircraft's name is changed with these modifications. My two friends up here cited EASA certifications that the ASW27 and ASG29 are the same aircraft, yes from the legal point of view it certainly is. Just like a 737 100 and a 737 800 is also the same, a T-27 Tucano and an A-29 Super Tucano too, the F-18 C and F-18 E is also the same aircraft and to finish the JU- 88 A / C / G is also the same aircraft. Any modification generates a new aircraft and with it a family of a project.

But my question is not this, but to specify through Reinolds' numbers that the profiles are different with that another aircraft develops. I imagined that I was contributing to this level of person and not with people who only look at the legal term of an aircraft, where legally or a certificate aligns an airplane balloon or an airplane glider.

I apologize for bothering you with this request that will no longer occur.

Thanks
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by wickid » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:25 am

I don't know what you are on about. Both the 27 and the 29 have the same basic wing profile: DU 89 – 134/14. It was developed by prof. Boermans at Delft university. He used to live across the street from me and he is a member at my club. I occasionally fly with him, so I know a bit about the development :wink: .

The ASG29 has a slight planform change (bit more chord at the tip to accommodate the 18 meter span with an acceptable chord and lift distribution). This would in theory reduce cruise performance (more wetted area) and increase climb performance (lower wingloading). But it has modifications in several other areas like: bugwiper garages, turbulent flow profiles near the wingroot, increased MTOW, larger wingloading range and a revised horizontal stabilizer layout to name a few. Those more then compensate for the slight cruise performance penalty while still retaining the better climb performance over the 27.

As I have said before, there is no point in spending time on an aircraft that is basically the same with slightly worse performance. It literally takes hundreds of hours developing a plane. I rather have the ASG29 which is in all area's slightly better then an ASW27b... it is pretty much an "ASW27c" with a different label.
Last edited by wickid on Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by wickid » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:34 am

Oh and if you are going to refer me to the soaring cafe article stating that the ASG29 has the DU97-127/15M airfoil and not the DU 89 -134/14, that article is wrong. DU97-127/15M is the Antares 20E wing profile :wink:
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Re: ASW27B + ASH26E

Post by Tom » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:48 am

Just going to add a comment here, please lets keep comments that attack peoples knowledge of subjects out of posts. There is a huge amount of time and effort involved in bringing any glider to Condor. The simple reason why Condor remains the Number 1 gliding Sim is that until we have 100% of accurate data, Gliders will not be brought in.

It takes a heck of a lot of work after the model is made to reach you guys flight model etc.

We take a very relaxed attitude to moderating the forums but personal insults or inflammatory contents about others will not be tolerated.

Cheers!

Tom
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