Editing an existing airport in Condor2

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edwalker
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Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Fri May 31, 2019 5:55 pm

I've read through most of the posts in this section and watched 24Tom's excellent Hollister airport creation video, but I still don't seem to understand how to modify an existing airport's objects once it is in c3d format. Is there a way to import an airport from Condor2 and rearrange and add objects after it has been exported from modeling software? I understand the difference between G and O files, and I've been able to create a new airport from scratch, but I don't get how to take a rendered airport and edit it. Is that possible?

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wickid
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by wickid » Fri May 31, 2019 6:11 pm

The C3D format is a condor only format. Modeling software can't read it.
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edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Fri May 31, 2019 6:15 pm

So that means that placeholder airports in very large Condor2 sceneries cannot be modified once they are exported into the .c3d format? That would imply that I would have to build a new airport from scratch to change any details, correct?

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EDB
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by EDB » Fri May 31, 2019 7:04 pm

The size doesn't matter...
viewtopic.php?p=164292#p164292

You have to modify your source files.

Who is 24Tom?
Condor2 Landscapes : Nephi (U14) for Condor2 and Boulder (KBDU) for Condor2 - Early Access.
Condor Skins : Team the Netherlands 5.3 and Dutch Nationals 14.10

edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Fri May 31, 2019 7:25 pm

The reference to 24Tom is to a YouTube video that shows how to build an airport from scratch.

I've since been able to see how to use Landscape editor to modify the objects near an airport. My problem was that the scenery I was using was too big for Landscape editor, and I was able to modify smaller sceneries.

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Andy1248
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by Andy1248 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:43 pm

The big point that you need to take note of is that if you modify an existing scenery then you cannot join an on line event with that scenery. You will get the error 'Modified scenery detected'.

The only way you can modify an existing scenery is to rename it. Rename the folder and all the key base files.
Condor CN = E20

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dgtfer
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by dgtfer » Fri May 31, 2019 9:12 pm

But you can replace an airport O and G c3d files and keep network compatibility. As c3d are not directly editable, you must build them with a 3d modeler, and then convert them with object editor.
it is also possible to open very large sceneries with landscape editor, but you will first have to un check the draw textures option (with f1). Of course this is a bit annoying if you want to position objects in accordance with the textures...
And if you add objects then your scenery will no longer be compatible.
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edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:32 pm

Ok, thanks to all for your comments. Here's a summary of what I now understand.

My goal of making a more authentic home airport for local personal use can be done, but it has to be started from scratch by replacing the O and G files and will be specific to my computer as well as other computers where I specifically replace the O and G files from the standard scenery. This will not hurt the network scenery issues for competition. Editing the larger landscape files using Landscape Editor, however, will invalidate the use in competitions.

Your comments were much appreciated.

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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by Xavier » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:44 pm

Hi edwalker,

My friend Dgtfer tells you what the results of changing the airport G and O files are.

You make some mistake with objects : There is always an in-line incompatibility if you move, add, replace any object in scenery whatever the size of the scenery.

But beware, if you make any change in the forest map, or if you make any change to the heights map you will encounter the same incompatibility.
So don't erase trees of the forest map nearby the airport and don't enlarge the plane surface of the airport.

The last important thing to say is the size limit of your new airports. The airports are loaded in the scenery when your plane is at 23/24 km. And if you don't want too long delay (the simulation hang during the loading), don't over pass 7000 vertices and/or 120 objects for the G and O files. I speak about the sum of the vertices and of objects in the G and O files. Use DDS or PNG texture files and minimize their size (make test with 2048, 1024, or 512 pixels).

Some other advice :
- You can embed in your O files any objects (trees, static planes, etc..). Use only low poly models ! if you want to add many objects.
- You can also submit your new airport to the scenery's author, and if the work is fine he will be happy to make a new release with your airport.

Thumb rules : the fps must be over 110 when you are flying near the airport, and don't have more than 1/5 of second when loading of the airport at 23/24 km with I3 and a GTX 750 Ti and a 6 Gb hard drive.

Good luck!
*****- Xavier - (XDL * F-DELX) -*****

edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:38 am

One other thing. My club uses a grass strip for launch and recovery which is parallel to the main asphalt runway. The default scenery uses the asphalt runway for aerotow. Is there a way of moving the aircraft start and launch path laterally without actually modifying the scenery? Also, it appears that the glider starts about 1/3 of the way down the runway. Is there any way to establish the actual launch point? How does Condor2 know where to start?

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dgtfer
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by dgtfer » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:00 pm

edwalker wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:38 am
Is there a way of moving the aircraft start and launch path laterally without actually modifying the scenery? Also, it appears that the glider starts about 1/3 of the way down the runway. Is there any way to establish the actual launch point? How does Condor2 know where to start?
You can move the position of the airfield origin in LE to the center of your grass strip. For the starting position, you can change the length in LE. but in both cases, your scenery will no longer be compatible for network flight.
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edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:00 pm

Are you the same DGT that did the Cascades Range scenery? It is remarkable and treasured by our local users. Thanks for your work.

The only remaining challenge is that the scenery is too large for LE, so I cannot use it to build out the airport, KAWO. What I'm trying to do as a CFIG is develop a local highly accurate airport representation for training purposes (rope breaks, local ops) for our students. If I can get LE to work I think I can build O and G files for the local airports in the training area that can be used in the next version of the larger scenery.

Is there a way to cut down the Cascades Scenery into a working copy so that it only encompasses a smaller area?

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dgtfer
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by dgtfer » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:01 pm

Thank you Ed, I will be very happy to integrate your Arlington installations!
You can build your O and G files without LE, you just need first to use the ground textures around the airfield as a template in your 3D modeller.
For example in Wings 3D. You need to transform the dds tile in bmp first than select and crop the airfield zone. with this image you can position all objects you want, but of course you need them in a readable format like .obj to merge them, or you can create your own objects.
When everything is in place, you export them in .obj, and transform them with Object Editor in the Condor format .c3d. For a perfect position of your files you'll have to center your template image precisely, but you can also make several corrections in your modeller and go in Condor to see the results.
To open a very big scenery in LE, you must first give it full memory access with 4gb_patch.exe, it's a free program that patches your .exe, search for it on the web.
It is possible to extract a smaller scenery from a big one, but it's a certain amount of work, that I cannot spend for now. I am largely overloaded by my own (real) work and with the eastern part of AA2 and with California2...
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edwalker
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by edwalker » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:23 am

Ok, I think I have made some progress. Landscape Editor does not appear to have any instruction guide that I have yet to find, and I just had to keep trying different ideas to figure out its use. I found by trial and error that right clicking on the specific airport in the list brings up a menu, and if you click 'Properties' it is there that some of the changes can be made to that airport.

I was able to move the active glider runway 60 meters to the side of ,and parallel to, the main runway by changing its GPS coordinates and make it grass instead of asphalt. However, I cannot seem to delete the standard ground objects that are on every airport (the hangars, oil tank, etc.), and they just follow the runway transposition as if everything is grouped as one object with the runway. I can add and delete new objects, but I cannot delete the standard objects that are common to all the airports. Is there any way to delete them? Are they in the G file or are they part of the landscape tile?
Also, what is the difference between "save landscape" and "save landscape +" ?

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wickid
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Re: Editing an existing airport in Condor2

Post by wickid » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:37 am

There are collidable objects and non collidable objects. Thats what the G and O files are for. Open them with the object editor too see whats inside them. They are in C3D format which cannot be edited. The only way to get rid of the tanks and stuff is to make a new O object that does not contain them.

The manual for the landscape editor is in the download section of the forum in both english and french.
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