North UK2

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Andy1248
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Re: North UK2

Post by Andy1248 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:34 pm

Another pic a bit lower at 3000ft (1000m approx.)
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Andy1248
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Re: North UK2

Post by Andy1248 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Patch 1.1 is now available on Condor Club (page 3 of sceneries).
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BOD1
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Re: North UK2

Post by BOD1 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:57 pm

Andy1248 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:29 pm
Patch 1.1 is now available on Condor Club (page 3 of sceneries).
Or direct access: https://www.condor-club.eu/viewscenery/242/?id=349
Or, better, use Condor Updater cndrup://l=1224 ;)
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KipperUK
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Re: North UK2

Post by KipperUK » Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm

I think it's an enhancement, Andy - and greatly needed.

If you're flying at real northern altitudes, having some 3D elements to the terrain is good because you can always see them. Additionally, it prevents being able to land out in the middle of a town, and would therefore start to reduce options and make Condor a viable tool for field landing selection and practice (when we've added a few cows, fences etc around the local fields too!)

The suggestions i'd make are -

1. Restrict it to housing or simple industrial developments because they are the most boring/painful to model in any other way. Any 'unique' stuff can be made specifically - they're more fun to make and will look better.

2. Is it possible (may not be) to introduce some variation into roof colouring? just so it's not completely uniform?

I don't think we have to worry about making all buildings the exact style - as we will only really observe the unique landmarks anyway. It just needs to be enough to tell the eye that you're flying over a town, and we do navigate by the shapes of towns, so houses in the right places and along roads helps massively.

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Andy1248
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Re: North UK2

Post by Andy1248 » Fri May 01, 2020 3:22 pm

I tried to make some 3D objects for a larger area (about 4 villages). Got them converted into .obj file no problem (Blender has a free OSM addon which works well).

Problems:

c3d files only allow one texture, so if you split the OSM objects into two parts (roofs and walls), you can only texture one, in my case the walls. The roofs I allocated a material colour.

The c3d file is placed in the World objects folder and using LE is orientated and aligned to the ground texture. However when Condor is launched there is quite a big hit to FPS even though it is only one object (although has a high Vertex 57k for walls and 22k for roofs).

The OSM buildings sizes look too big (height wise). The limited texture options are not very real.

One possible future solution is to do what other flight simulators can do. For instance Aerofly allows user generated scenery and has an active community. The 3D objects all come from OSM World and are made as part of the addon scenery, the Aerofly software has built in textures that are added to the objects which make them quite realistic.

So in summary unless someone can come up with a better method of getting OSM data into Condor, then I feel we are limited to just a few objects in built up areas.

The attached pic is from Aerofly showing a Bocian over York. I have had to reduce the image size quite a bit to be able to attach it to this post, so may have lost a bit of its impact.
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KipperUK
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Re: North UK2

Post by KipperUK » Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm

Andy1248 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:22 pm
I tried to make some 3D objects for a larger area (about 4 villages). Got them converted into .obj file no problem (Blender has a free OSM addon which works well).
Can you offer a brief step by step so others can experiment? Is it straightforward?
Andy1248 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:22 pm
c3d files only allow one texture, so if you split the OSM objects into two parts (roofs and walls), you can only texture one, in my case the walls. The roofs I allocated a material colour.
One texture per object within the file; for example in my power station each cooling tower is a separate object, as is the chimey and the buildings. They use 3 textures between them (cooling towers all use the same, chimney has its own, buildings should have their own but I don't think I made one).

This means that you could split the houses so they are say.. 3 objects and apply a slightly different version to each? It's still only 3 textures - or even just use the RGB to vary the shade a little bit and stick with one texture.
Andy1248 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:22 pm
The c3d file is placed in the World objects folder and using LE is orientated and aligned to the ground texture. However when Condor is launched there is quite a big hit to FPS even though it is only one object (although has a high Vertex 57k for walls and 22k for roofs).
It's unclear (not being a professional 3D person but just from reading this forum) where the performance hit comes from. Is it:

1. Multiple individual C3Ds in the same area?
2. Single C3D's that contain multiple objects and textures?
3. Objects that contain a lot of vertices?
4. Objects that are physically large?

I get the impression that vertex count doesn't matter, but people have had issues with physically large areas, and with multiple objects. So is the solution to try to combine objects into single C3Ds even if there are a few textures, but keep them all to an arbitrary max size (1km sq?). Has there been any testing on that?
Andy1248 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:22 pm
The attached pic is from Aerofly showing a Bocian over York. I have had to reduce the image size quite a bit to be able to attach it to this post, so may have lost a bit of its impact.
Looks awesome.

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wickid
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Re: North UK2

Post by wickid » Fri May 01, 2020 5:32 pm

KipperUK wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm

It's unclear (not being a professional 3D person but just from reading this forum) where the performance hit comes from. Is it:

1. Multiple individual C3Ds in the same area?
2. Single C3D's that contain multiple objects and textures?
3. Objects that contain a lot of vertices?
4. Objects that are physically large?

I get the impression that vertex count doesn't matter, but people have had issues with physically large areas, and with multiple objects. So is the solution to try to combine objects into single C3Ds even if there are a few textures, but keep them all to an arbitrary max size (1km sq?). Has there been any testing on that?
Performance hit depends on the number of draw calls. Uros explained it here: https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/vi ... ls#p160876

What would be awesome is if there is a set of buildings (houses, flats, powerline poles, ect.) that all share a common texture that can be automatically placed on top of the vector data from OSM. So if OSM says there is a house, then one of the houses from the set gets randomly chosen (can be 6 to 10 vertices) and placed at that position. Then group an entire town together so it is a single object with one texture. Export to C3D (one line in the object editor, with a single texture). That is just 1 draw call for Condor. Number of vertices is not a big problem (if you don't go nuts).

I could make a basic set of buildings, but i'm busy at the moment, but if somebody figures out how to place random objects in Blender at positions indicated by OSM data I'm happy to help.
PH-1504, KOE
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