Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Moderator: BOD1
Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
I think the current pilot ranking list is totally meaningless as it only shows how much someone flies and not how good pilots are.
It would be great to implement some sort of skill rating systems like in other sports (elo in chess, MMR in starcraft or other skill based rankings in various online games) with esport becoming more and more popular this could help to qualify to various online competitions.
All we need is a log from the server with results and log of disconnections to people disconnecting to avoid loss of rating points. Points would be gained only as a result of a direct competition between pilots.
There are many mathematical models for rating systems already developed, we could use one of them. My personal favorite it GLICKO 2 rating system
http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
In general the idea is quite simple: you win with another pilot you gain points, he loses points.
The system could be implemented in all RATED competitions (or individual races) . UNRATED competitions could still take place. Organisers can decide if competition is rated or not.
Is this feasible at all?
It would be great to implement some sort of skill rating systems like in other sports (elo in chess, MMR in starcraft or other skill based rankings in various online games) with esport becoming more and more popular this could help to qualify to various online competitions.
All we need is a log from the server with results and log of disconnections to people disconnecting to avoid loss of rating points. Points would be gained only as a result of a direct competition between pilots.
There are many mathematical models for rating systems already developed, we could use one of them. My personal favorite it GLICKO 2 rating system
http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
In general the idea is quite simple: you win with another pilot you gain points, he loses points.
The system could be implemented in all RATED competitions (or individual races) . UNRATED competitions could still take place. Organisers can decide if competition is rated or not.
Is this feasible at all?
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Interesting indeed!
I looked at the ELO system used to rate chess players (1 vs 1) a while back but it is not applicable to a set of players.
Glicko has the same problem , but I came across the ELO-MMR scoring system published in April 2021 at the WWW 21 conference in... Ljubljana in Slovenia (that's a sign!): https://cs.stanford.edu/people/paulliu/ ... 1-elor.pdf (Elo-MMR: A Rating System for Massive Multiplayer Competitions, where "MMR" in the name stands for "Massive", "Monotonic", and "Robust").
An implementation in RUST (https://github.com/EbTech/Elo-MMR) is provided but I do not know this language, I will try to convert it into JAVA, beyond the fact that it exceeds my skills in mathematics (BTW, if there is a talented RUST/JAVA developer in the room...)
The other problem to solve is the choice of the result set (I'm not sure that limiting it to competitions will yield a sufficient data set), the minimal number of scores to consider and the frequency of the calculation.
I think I'll take the ranking from each race, if there are at least 5 results. If it's a competition I calculate once the day is over, but if it's a non-competition race, I'll have results that will be added over the year (and possibly an overlap over several years), so how do I incorporate them into the rating?
I looked at the ELO system used to rate chess players (1 vs 1) a while back but it is not applicable to a set of players.
Glicko has the same problem , but I came across the ELO-MMR scoring system published in April 2021 at the WWW 21 conference in... Ljubljana in Slovenia (that's a sign!): https://cs.stanford.edu/people/paulliu/ ... 1-elor.pdf (Elo-MMR: A Rating System for Massive Multiplayer Competitions, where "MMR" in the name stands for "Massive", "Monotonic", and "Robust").
An implementation in RUST (https://github.com/EbTech/Elo-MMR) is provided but I do not know this language, I will try to convert it into JAVA, beyond the fact that it exceeds my skills in mathematics (BTW, if there is a talented RUST/JAVA developer in the room...)
The other problem to solve is the choice of the result set (I'm not sure that limiting it to competitions will yield a sufficient data set), the minimal number of scores to consider and the frequency of the calculation.
I think I'll take the ranking from each race, if there are at least 5 results. If it's a competition I calculate once the day is over, but if it's a non-competition race, I'll have results that will be added over the year (and possibly an overlap over several years), so how do I incorporate them into the rating?
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Thanks Witold to rising this subject!
I think some simple and not too complicated solution could be following:
1) number of pilot flown the task minus your position:
- 10 flown, you 3rd = you get 7 points
- 30 flown, you 3rd = you get 27 points
- 240 flown, you 25th = you get 215 points
- with exception: 1 (only you) flown, you get minimum 1 point. And if you fly plane with index below 1, 1 is divided by that index number = you get over 1 point.
- then task lenght must have some influence as well, but not too much unless it is competition flight. This will prevent pilots who fly only offline +1000km tasks be on top of ranking.
So, if you want to be high on ranking list, you should attend those popular competitions.
2) competitions can have additional factor(-s), maybe based on how many competitors have registered.
- you get ranking points from each task as described above
- the more registered pilot who have really flown tasks, the higher factor (maybe counted from final overall results?)
- extra ranking points for top 3 pilots (more pilots in comp = higher extra points)
- this also gives extra value on competitions above daily frequent races
Then there's naturally possibility have even higher factor e.g. in competitions organized by FAI eSport.
3) then I would include some "penalties", no idea yet how much:
- not uploading your ftr in competition
- crash is naturally 0 points, but in competition some extra minus ranking points (if competition organizer has not set crash penalty already)
- those who were watching eSGP briefings & races, must have noticed that they put high value on safe flying even in virtual.
Definetely this requires further development/thinking: Maybe how to valuate higher those flights with low index plane (single result, competitions can have higher factor when plane class is low index). My thinking is that easiest is to use those numbers what we already have: amount of pilots, position, task lenght, plane index (+competition factor), e.t.c.
Jarmo
I think some simple and not too complicated solution could be following:
1) number of pilot flown the task minus your position:
- 10 flown, you 3rd = you get 7 points
- 30 flown, you 3rd = you get 27 points
- 240 flown, you 25th = you get 215 points
- with exception: 1 (only you) flown, you get minimum 1 point. And if you fly plane with index below 1, 1 is divided by that index number = you get over 1 point.
- then task lenght must have some influence as well, but not too much unless it is competition flight. This will prevent pilots who fly only offline +1000km tasks be on top of ranking.
So, if you want to be high on ranking list, you should attend those popular competitions.
2) competitions can have additional factor(-s), maybe based on how many competitors have registered.
- you get ranking points from each task as described above
- the more registered pilot who have really flown tasks, the higher factor (maybe counted from final overall results?)
- extra ranking points for top 3 pilots (more pilots in comp = higher extra points)
- this also gives extra value on competitions above daily frequent races
Then there's naturally possibility have even higher factor e.g. in competitions organized by FAI eSport.
3) then I would include some "penalties", no idea yet how much:
- not uploading your ftr in competition
- crash is naturally 0 points, but in competition some extra minus ranking points (if competition organizer has not set crash penalty already)
- those who were watching eSGP briefings & races, must have noticed that they put high value on safe flying even in virtual.
Definetely this requires further development/thinking: Maybe how to valuate higher those flights with low index plane (single result, competitions can have higher factor when plane class is low index). My thinking is that easiest is to use those numbers what we already have: amount of pilots, position, task lenght, plane index (+competition factor), e.t.c.
Jarmo
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
That will kill nice competitions with less competitors. Concentration on the big competitions is at the expense of the variety of competitions (the last sentence is translated with google, couldn't say that in english by myself)
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Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Hi all,
One problem are the differences between the competitions. We have one ore two very long contests with over 25 flight days and only about 15 days are scored. There are also short contests with about 10 flightdays and maybe 8 are scored. I think, the long competitions could be divided in two or three. In this case I suggest the following procedure (otherwise we need no ranking list and instead of we can use the results of the big contests):
1. Pilot's performance in competitions
Within a year we could consider the 3 best results of a pilot and compare it with the winners of the contests. We can use the following formular:
Ri=1/3*(Pmax1/P1+Pmax2/P2+Pmax3/p3)*1000
Ri=individual Ranking, P1, P2, P3 are the points of the regarded pilot, Pmax1, Pmax2, Pmax3 are the points of the winners in contest 1, 2 and 3. You get a number between 0 and 1000.
2. Skill of the participating pilots
We must also consider the skill of the participating pilots. We can use a skill factor Fs, based upon the rankings of the winners. We use the top 3 pilots.
Fs=1/9*(R11+R12+R13+R21+R22+R23+R31+R32+R33)/1000
R11=Ranking of winner in contest 1, R12=Ranking of 2nd in contest 2, .......
3. Specifics of the competition
We must consider the ratio between rated days and number of flight days in a competition. We get the following factor:
Fc= (Fr1/Ft1+Fr2/Ft2+Fr3/Ft3)
Fr1=rated flights of contest1, Ft1=total flights of contest1, Fr2=.....
4. Result
Now we can calculate the ranking R of the considered pilot.
R=Ri*Fs*Fc
If we want to consider more differences between the competitions we can introduce more F factors.
This system based in great parts upon the calculation of the FAI IGC ranking.
Fox9
One problem are the differences between the competitions. We have one ore two very long contests with over 25 flight days and only about 15 days are scored. There are also short contests with about 10 flightdays and maybe 8 are scored. I think, the long competitions could be divided in two or three. In this case I suggest the following procedure (otherwise we need no ranking list and instead of we can use the results of the big contests):
1. Pilot's performance in competitions
Within a year we could consider the 3 best results of a pilot and compare it with the winners of the contests. We can use the following formular:
Ri=1/3*(Pmax1/P1+Pmax2/P2+Pmax3/p3)*1000
Ri=individual Ranking, P1, P2, P3 are the points of the regarded pilot, Pmax1, Pmax2, Pmax3 are the points of the winners in contest 1, 2 and 3. You get a number between 0 and 1000.
2. Skill of the participating pilots
We must also consider the skill of the participating pilots. We can use a skill factor Fs, based upon the rankings of the winners. We use the top 3 pilots.
Fs=1/9*(R11+R12+R13+R21+R22+R23+R31+R32+R33)/1000
R11=Ranking of winner in contest 1, R12=Ranking of 2nd in contest 2, .......
3. Specifics of the competition
We must consider the ratio between rated days and number of flight days in a competition. We get the following factor:
Fc= (Fr1/Ft1+Fr2/Ft2+Fr3/Ft3)
Fr1=rated flights of contest1, Ft1=total flights of contest1, Fr2=.....
4. Result
Now we can calculate the ranking R of the considered pilot.
R=Ri*Fs*Fc
If we want to consider more differences between the competitions we can introduce more F factors.
This system based in great parts upon the calculation of the FAI IGC ranking.
Fox9
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
I'm assuming this thread is about the ranking list in Condor Club website?
There is some benefit to having a general ranking list that doesn't mean anything accurate.
Firstly, at a glance you can see who spends WAY to much time flying Condor!
Secondly, do we really want to know just how badly we compare to other pilots in a general ranking?
How many of us will lose hope if we really knew truth? Then, stop flying Condor out of frustration.
Personally, I like to think I'm a pretty good competitor in Condor, and the raw truth just might just
hurt my feelings, so yeah, I'm on the fence with this one guys
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
I read a lot of documentation about rating systems, it's a very interesting field, with different problematic aspects like Rating inflation, Rating manipulation, ...
A rating system makes it possible to calculate the skill level of a player in relation to other players with a certain degree of imprecision, based on the matches played. It is then theoretically possible to calculate the probability of victory of one player over another.
Here is an example:
We measure player’s strength in the form of an interval: the lowest value in the interval is the player’s rating minus twice the RD, and the
highest value is the player’s rating plus twice the RD. So, for example, UWE's rating is 2248 (no unit!) and the RD is 35, the interval would go from 2178 to 2318. We would then say that we’re 95% confident that UWE’s actual strength is between 2178 and 2318.
When a player has a low RD, the interval would be narrow, so that we would be 95% confident about a player’s strength being in a small interval of values.
Less you play, more the deviation increases.
In addition to the rating and deviation, the volatility of each player is calculated. The volatility measure indicates the degree of expected fluctuation in a player’s rating. The volatility measure is high when a player has erratic performances (e.g., when the player has had exceptionally strong results after a period of stability), and the volatility measure is low when the player performs at a consistent level.
Rating could then reach an abnormal level (like 1000000) if a player does low performances then suddenly beats the best rated player, or 0 if a one of the best players is last in a competition.
I still have to find a way to constrain this volatility and because of the probabilistic approach, I'm not sure the rating can be used to produce a ranking (maybe if I strongly restrain the volatility?)
Usually, charts are displayed with intervals, and not a individual ranking, like this:
I retained the Glicko2 system (Elo-MMR looked better and manipulation-proof but I absolutely did not understand how it works, I only found an implementation in RUST and I do not have the level to understand and redevelop it in Java ) and I developed this system in Java, largely inspired by glicko2js then I made some tests based on Condor Club competitions since 2008.
The dataset must be selected with care, so I retained only finished individual competitions (I'll see how to integrate team based competitions later), with at least 3 valid race days and a least 3 scored days (in CC competition, organizer can define overall score is based on the N best days of each competitor), at least 5 scored competitors per days.
Then I compute scores and ranking for the competition and only retain competitors with at least as many results as days retained for the overall calculation and an overall score > 0.
Glicko2 computes rating on a 2 persons match basis, so for a race, I create a list of matches like this:
Each computation uses previous rating, deviation and volatility of each player, with a default rating of 1500 and deviation of 300 for first-see players.
Interesting bibliography on rating:
Performance rating algorithms: https://repository.middlebury.edu/islan ... m/OBJ/view
Glicko: http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdf and http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
Elo-MMR: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/paulliu/ ... 1-elor.pdf
FAI ranking: https://rankingdata.fai.org/sc3d.pdf
Feedbacks and thoughts on rating: https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue43/elo-hello and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/e ... s.3487422/
I continue testing, I retained 237 competitions to rate, it's about ~3000 players.
A rating system makes it possible to calculate the skill level of a player in relation to other players with a certain degree of imprecision, based on the matches played. It is then theoretically possible to calculate the probability of victory of one player over another.
Here is an example:
Code: Select all
Player Rating Deviation (RD)
Robyfly RF 2253.3027150564185 rd: 49.95259122697735
UWE 2248.492671905065 rd: 35.867610664293494
Andrzej Czop 2231.8884071987663 rd: 87.60060399173629
CNorbee 2222.364512702584 rd: 38.038772913683616
Soenke 2221.7758976229406 rd: 33.97938656676767
Cruiser 2214.357499430798 rd: 34.856755369459115
highest value is the player’s rating plus twice the RD. So, for example, UWE's rating is 2248 (no unit!) and the RD is 35, the interval would go from 2178 to 2318. We would then say that we’re 95% confident that UWE’s actual strength is between 2178 and 2318.
When a player has a low RD, the interval would be narrow, so that we would be 95% confident about a player’s strength being in a small interval of values.
Less you play, more the deviation increases.
In addition to the rating and deviation, the volatility of each player is calculated. The volatility measure indicates the degree of expected fluctuation in a player’s rating. The volatility measure is high when a player has erratic performances (e.g., when the player has had exceptionally strong results after a period of stability), and the volatility measure is low when the player performs at a consistent level.
Rating could then reach an abnormal level (like 1000000) if a player does low performances then suddenly beats the best rated player, or 0 if a one of the best players is last in a competition.
I still have to find a way to constrain this volatility and because of the probabilistic approach, I'm not sure the rating can be used to produce a ranking (maybe if I strongly restrain the volatility?)
Usually, charts are displayed with intervals, and not a individual ranking, like this:
Code: Select all
Rating Nb of players
[2700-2800] 1
[2500-2600] 7
[2400-2500] 12
[2300-2400] 45
...
[1000-1100] 20
[<1000] 10 (or not displayed)
The dataset must be selected with care, so I retained only finished individual competitions (I'll see how to integrate team based competitions later), with at least 3 valid race days and a least 3 scored days (in CC competition, organizer can define overall score is based on the N best days of each competitor), at least 5 scored competitors per days.
Then I compute scores and ranking for the competition and only retain competitors with at least as many results as days retained for the overall calculation and an overall score > 0.
Glicko2 computes rating on a 2 persons match basis, so for a race, I create a list of matches like this:
Code: Select all
Ranking of the race:
#1 - Player A
#2 - Players B & C (ex æquo)
#3 - Player D
Code: Select all
That gives these matches:
A wins against B
A wins against C
A wins against D
B draws against C
B wins against D
C wins against D
Interesting bibliography on rating:
Performance rating algorithms: https://repository.middlebury.edu/islan ... m/OBJ/view
Glicko: http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdf and http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
Elo-MMR: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/paulliu/ ... 1-elor.pdf
FAI ranking: https://rankingdata.fai.org/sc3d.pdf
Feedbacks and thoughts on rating: https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue43/elo-hello and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/e ... s.3487422/
I continue testing, I retained 237 competitions to rate, it's about ~3000 players.
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
It seems my filters are good enough to avoid extreme volatility
Here is a preliminary chart from 237 finished competitions since 2008 until competition "[OPEN] 1st Virtual Sailplane Grand Prix - World Final 2021" (there are about 10 finished-but-not-closed competitions hanging on CC, I will close them this week if organizers doesn't show up):
And the rating (sorry for alignement, not easy with the forum editor):
Here is a preliminary chart from 237 finished competitions since 2008 until competition "[OPEN] 1st Virtual Sailplane Grand Prix - World Final 2021" (there are about 10 finished-but-not-closed competitions hanging on CC, I will close them this week if organizers doesn't show up):
Code: Select all
[2200-2300] 3
[2100-2200] 7
[2000-2100] 18
[1900-2000] 48
[1800-1900] 54
[1700-1800] 70
[1600-1700] 102
[1500-1600] 103
[1400-1500] 120
[1300-1400] 124
[1200-1300] 129
[1100-1200] 121
[1000-1100] 87
[900-1000] 28
[800-900] 5
[700-800] 2
Code: Select all
TimKuijpers 2241.8938 rd: 87.13694176455601
Witor 2238.4134 rd: 73.05039140343152
Maymar 2209.7544 rd: 114.14978098520928
QuMaPa 2166.1914 rd: 134.34748503227064
Ejelaci 2144.0480 rd: 133.5125639860953
Wiek 2132.6301 rd: 71.85810743044713
EP | Erik 2130.6494 rd: 88.32115024924032
TimoA 2130.2772 rd: 111.54283143028026
Charon 2127.9020 rd: 150.3732141533566
Lg 2102.1751 rd: 146.6614854449561
LSanyika 2093.4205 rd: 114.37183100377212
Kuba 2081.2854 rd: 68.12452813501426
TAF 2072.2995 rd: 90.89848973391913
Cris_franzini 2071.2297 rd: 86.6037449482879
Nicolas Pizzolante 2070.0649 rd: 77.16689822373392
Jan schulz 2062.2247 rd: 111.0370516906022
Thibeau 2059.1518 rd: 135.3067060298829
Manolo 2054.9406 rd: 84.49863317712617
Iann Benesovsky 2049.5838 rd: 86.92528964320648
Dan Hender 2047.8834 rd: 97.14699985798876
Thijs Bastiaanse 2028.5009 rd: 135.73568355108767
Fox9 2027.4049 rd: 158.85462450571117
ClementAllen 2023.8788 rd: 94.86696136422816
Brian-BMC (#1) 2016.8785 rd: 58.67546193327186
Cruiser 2009.0752 rd: 146.13138652722807
PLP 2005.2886 rd: 106.76914664791684
UWE 2000.7513 rd: 92.2321649371043
AM Guettler 2000.3303 rd: 69.53235100413768
T.broty 1997.9377 rd: 79.13784213677064
NICATO 1997.8629 rd: 76.63041108495521
NO 1996.6516 rd: 176.74382698881624
Knausz Mihaly 1993.1803 rd: 68.9430883171481
CNorbee 1991.8280 rd: 78.01190874229484
Thiesbruins 1989.6969 rd: 104.62327490448102
Luengo Maximiliano 1981.1962 rd: 85.92474749651173
Congo 1975.6851 rd: 232.20482356157353
Timkie 1973.1075 rd: 75.73437055408809
Chris - Alpha Sieben X-Ray 1972.8963 rd: 102.53647766154607
Moroccan pilot 1969.9851 rd: 147.6048637404558
BAI 1968.5902 rd: 152.9879826408988
Frosch Kermit 1966.5979 rd: 105.3442297016614
Guillaume Trichard 1964.8142 rd: 148.41071892694688
Sylvain2AB 1962.0482 rd: 145.31618031245742
Norma 1960.6825 rd: 134.42883807143195
22 1960.2972 rd: 164.95750193569245
Dinog (#2) 1959.8374 rd: 66.70550955953216
Frankls10 1958.5644 rd: 60.00162947418138
MarkRebuck 1954.8661 rd: 136.23084400789506
Z.Z.alB.H 1951.2082 rd: 142.04265682921613
Martin Baran 1950.7390 rd: 90.97463628852978
M.Canfield 1949.4416 rd: 83.823951290982
Horwil 1948.8858 rd: 176.972911133891
Micco54 1946.5754 rd: 175.02645613268325
CristianoConrado 1945.9494 rd: 76.64888390738103
Robin 1940.7549 rd: 139.91293110243188
Flo1G 1940.3996 rd: 83.66357628715447
Eliott McAleese 1937.6428 rd: 105.31237032413213
B.Fest 1936.1975 rd: 87.56732129485891
Tonyh 1931.9223 rd: 147.10103820205998
Nko 1929.5744 rd: 150.20096852107812
Foerstair 1925.7028 rd: 110.7938398572656
AirMan 1924.7675 rd: 118.31659629340103
SOI 1924.4125 rd: 140.13799623910214
RMontiel 1924.2204 rd: 103.67297395415846
Jim Acketoft 1924.1548 rd: 661.9096815855202
Robban 1923.7575 rd: 159.48116241535556
DeHiro 1923.2578 rd: 102.54473880300989
ElRasta 1918.7181 rd: 80.972555439331
Pedrin 1914.8419 rd: 83.66345465084973
Jdarrain 1911.3124 rd: 80.57474509625992
Pityesz 1906.7527 rd: 147.09089583870835
Santimesquida 1906.6325 rd: 77.87567697932884
Alohvynchuk 1906.2999 rd: 85.76171655107892
Philippe_PLT 1904.1942 rd: 79.42655153835959
Sprunga72 1903.1179 rd: 146.35622589798191
DougS 1901.0110 rd: 106.08222541101041
Darius 1898.6779 rd: 95.99549770483682
Philipp Kapferer 1897.0209 rd: 104.24441501947909
Giacodall94 1895.7220 rd: 95.48102034719484
Nikolai Neiva 1895.5560 rd: 251.29357395182765
Floyd141 1892.3021 rd: 120.62137556084635
LuisSaut 1892.0311 rd: 114.08712608531994
Centanni_ciro 1891.6519 rd: 84.09826482604802
Wity 1884.5499 rd: 78.60412356715322
Lukie 1884.4760 rd: 147.0895995941647
Lorenzo Cucchi 1884.2024 rd: 86.31329429997294
Fazol 1882.4963 rd: 152.98243904536625
Lucio Zanassi 1881.1905 rd: 84.09803000034664
6T2 1880.6802 rd: 187.98565296222242
Kedder 1880.1690 rd: 171.91689377991716
Jon Holland 1878.3219 rd: 75.05884123144915
Basil Fawlty 1876.4328 rd: 158.1084471708419
DennisTerp(SXD) 1876.0062 rd: 111.02954570152716
Andresdlh 1873.0337 rd: 89.41717030134626
RJF 1870.1270 rd: 98.38671730367905
GunnarGronlien 1866.5728 rd: 225.58742043307436
D7Luke 1865.2453 rd: 75.80932218470868
Alioth 1862.9315 rd: 60.65518150680713
Julio Sosa S. 1861.6725 rd: 113.14335804183854
Jorgeiii 1857.0609 rd: 162.57551394925255
Campolina (EWC) 1856.8227 rd: 150.5877766064345
GeorgeWhite 1856.0882 rd: 137.4366294908189
Javier solans (#3) 1855.8525 rd: 77.02797640338322
Negroask18 1850.1109 rd: 80.78387054649865
Matthijs Bruins 1847.6489 rd: 152.98051432720897
AgustinSauro 1846.6502 rd: 126.11499602527687
Tim B 1846.5464 rd: 79.42642465110066
Siemensthermikkurbel 1844.6130 rd: 147.13492760082724
ClemensSC 1842.9948 rd: 107.26426030105051
Dpluigi 1842.1191 rd: 65.41163105190194
Goldenhawk77 1840.0840 rd: 66.39740629932231
NormanGordon 1838.0320 rd: 164.66480957012118
Leon.B 1836.1934 rd: 103.5242917874904
Love2Fly 1835.5711 rd: 158.1064033078501
Lanzimat 1834.3545 rd: 109.34823103556108
Yhuki Nagasaki 1832.8890 rd: 232.19958440778993
KaBaj 1832.2324 rd: 146.11080645874657
Dgtfer 1828.4721 rd: 78.98666912785379
Tiberius 1826.5111 rd: 86.06072069000751
David R 1824.8500 rd: 187.98319123918535
PEPEJIM 1824.6640 rd: 119.67576579469788
A.R. 1822.9585 rd: 111.02795324403603
GravityRider 1820.6747 rd: 92.40629536162128
Teppie thermiek 1817.3877 rd: 110.66278789170116
Bdt Alain 1812.7701 rd: 89.59535301993247
LZ 1811.3890 rd: 144.71346726996651
Migue M.Boero (#5) 1810.4161 rd: 64.18097204818419
BRA 1806.5084 rd: 156.30544033719846
Mick Webb 1806.3948 rd: 117.10017623142559
MoralesR 1804.7708 rd: 81.21820191887737
Snip 1796.3196 rd: 147.55994647395497
PRZ 1794.2798 rd: 143.60044289900986
Cbrunschen 1793.2754 rd: 131.22941202663495
Jkarvine 1792.7841 rd: 239.55403593966759
FedeFran 1792.6299 rd: 72.2136309920839
Iglesiasmarianod 1789.1143 rd: 144.86479087616408
Velivosges 1788.4784 rd: 175.7677154254172
Mattmckrell6H 1787.9295 rd: 85.48906633216589
Max Mensing 1787.4359 rd: 97.14426358392167
Vitaliy | VG 1787.1977 rd: 120.6952296403244
R.Aguiar 1786.8451 rd: 133.62289827060303
Nimbus 4D 1786.7178 rd: 181.40955940112588
Finnkristensen 1785.6028 rd: 138.0191917062912
G104S7 1783.3536 rd: 81.78126219519247
Slavko 1783.2084 rd: 157.28511353553694
Robert Haugen 1782.5958 rd: 71.15332659581314
Schulle 1782.4416 rd: 147.13397193004013
D.Dupire 1776.5277 rd: 141.9448880507306
Spolita 1775.1820 rd: 79.71680171216374
Tomprid3 1772.9310 rd: 77.18215517935613
Alf 1772.8131 rd: 146.6320938180499
T.Nilsson 1769.0197 rd: 187.98111933580813
Jpvalenu 1768.9500 rd: 98.13363243063377
Friggitotti 1767.1224 rd: 66.72078359598065
Emmanuel 1766.1507 rd: 67.96063408653673
Tom Bouctou 1765.6563 rd: 152.45231120269204
RW 1764.9744 rd: 112.41815200233594
Jaroslaw Kajoch 1764.7258 rd: 79.86358545733741
JKK 1761.6111 rd: 54.14750299046039
Siraly 1761.0724 rd: 152.07853186407152
Roberto Zanini 1758.0992 rd: 156.30424040165212
Tim.faver 1757.8329 rd: 117.09991750480296
JoshuaSetford 1757.6041 rd: 97.14405915634937
Koroglu9011 1757.1385 rd: 79.42626642981283
SebaBollatti 1756.5310 rd: 119.21007505754723
XL136 1754.5198 rd: 90.52678933160614
FerminFer 1748.0185 rd: 81.27656956733314
OlVox 1747.7102 rd: 146.34958757817193
Szenko 1745.5053 rd: 164.94675887706867
Sm4llie 1745.0041 rd: 225.5835853150377
Titas Jovaisa 1744.7805 rd: 95.99447754138627
Ackkie 1742.4621 rd: 156.32712725760462
Sasa 1740.4958 rd: 64.49878191717903
Philoo 1739.7680 rd: 69.46675841919556
Lacerda 1739.1294 rd: 133.62225378184147
Neroni 1737.4476 rd: 58.776702959076125
PhilKel 1735.3038 rd: 149.17890406076293
RaM 1734.0738 rd: 167.98273708259336
KH 1733.2292 rd: 575.1052363466314
Janus 1731.3317 rd: 144.98664889314108
OliverRamsay 1727.7723 rd: 97.14387711429117
Dodo 1727.0537 rd: 147.21698196038756
Turcoall 1726.8982 rd: 81.65188637015197
Horst Jahnke 1721.4427 rd: 51.578528498830096
DrDiman 1721.1905 rd: 151.77533745814833
Redfela 1720.4103 rd: 87.10963275625812
Gonzariera 1720.3305 rd: 84.09522003241558
Dimchansky 1718.7395 rd: 148.14709473477708
Kest4s 1716.4017 rd: 146.07934234012797
Giacomo 1716.2721 rd: 105.14090220816891
Jono Jones 1715.4796 rd: 93.84849997301352
Golden eagle 1715.2218 rd: 78.25808927615046
Rodas 1714.2326 rd: 140.66797095443445
Mattm 1713.1894 rd: 187.97943712988013
Dziuq 1712.4250 rd: 45.84656787614432
Stoffel060790 1710.4203 rd: 125.0821264507042
Michelmc 1708.1856 rd: 147.03264220789654
Xbicho 1704.8097 rd: 75.07678009288067
Torben 1704.1389 rd: 64.92303871851166
Tjsoler (#11) 1702.6340 rd: 65.19831545704167
Pepe Dentone 1698.8744 rd: 136.72894190201964
Jura 1698.3382 rd: 135.12139204665075
Federico Schilling 1697.6454 rd: 134.27308715565317
JD Sowers 1697.1173 rd: 131.76503623698878
Dicxit 1696.2221 rd: 170.63612267930955
WDP 1695.7820 rd: 147.11563470960445
Janv stratum 1694.9374 rd: 84.41488103814434
Rafal37 1693.7591 rd: 176.73033898294136
Yann 40 1692.3292 rd: 155.32299861419344
Thiesb 1690.0595 rd: 138.5490506432915
Crippled Buzzard 1689.3948 rd: 158.33797685376985
Soenke 1688.4361 rd: 155.30572399632462
Pckormic01 1685.7975 rd: 83.66268926808716
Enjoleur 1683.8608 rd: 104.61560275168505
Julian M Delfabro 1682.8446 rd: 73.33999768280275
Memphis 1681.3514 rd: 140.4019873182488
Jonas Angenendt 1680.6680 rd: 169.90017572527682
Christer sjoberg 1680.5158 rd: 105.36094923590032
AlbertoBadano 1680.1818 rd: 78.45977389074918
Rumpler 1680.1181 rd: 152.9738268845372
Virking 1678.3072 rd: 87.95869740586623
TMayer 1678.1999 rd: 68.84715282407093
J-gustafsson 1672.6317 rd: 182.24593546809623
Denis76 1672.3747 rd: 151.22952813147552
MRO - Michel Robert 1671.3019 rd: 95.58602208239238
Carlosmikelsen (#10) 1670.8996 rd: 54.237689051698624
GosHawk 1669.8066 rd: 163.43113673524297
Miguelmazzarella 1669.0427 rd: 78.00006640972516
Henrik Carlsen 1668.9158 rd: 137.63990203793165
Nicolas 156 1668.5774 rd: 104.61540219669764
Ardix 1667.8411 rd: 96.78901484984635
Cirrus133 1666.4728 rd: 149.99759373221926
Johnvs76 1665.6523 rd: 122.26731066723119
R0B 1665.2525 rd: 152.97343860723768
Nahuel 1664.4234 rd: 215.90455388368446
PMG 1664.2748 rd: 130.2983847748794
Ulik 1664.1087 rd: 55.00023168275265
Icare 1663.6632 rd: 109.20796927692356
Bart Leysen 1663.3532 rd: 145.90989124835454
Emotodude 1662.4406 rd: 80.28693041266683
Stefan Beach 1661.4427 rd: 85.44077370489426
Zbych 1660.7473 rd: 58.49380033955786
Robfrias 1660.6270 rd: 175.15081682736204
Svennevs 1660.2397 rd: 83.662640075749
DanGigantic 1657.4182 rd: 141.53847746994188
H. Gorecki (HG) 1657.3592 rd: 187.97814453309718
Stuartlawc4 1657.3378 rd: 158.33732384459125
OMarques 1657.2015 rd: 128.12581996072788
Sydewinder 1656.9006 rd: 86.97016849239878
Jotero 1655.4166 rd: 81.65486551202014
Nicolas Becerra 1654.9792 rd: 108.29914332664043
Azcona EAZ 1654.9518 rd: 58.79942608630694
Leo Salotti 1653.5675 rd: 84.09449522461637
Discus583 1653.3052 rd: 146.0567257156125
Spy20071 1652.3144 rd: 176.72941416021013
Migueloco (#4) 1651.6737 rd: 51.332812192011204
Carlos Almeida 1650.7037 rd: 156.30231313040926
Bernie54 1650.6170 rd: 85.43606162055421
Gaxelsson 1650.6065 rd: 132.5033071784439
SamJN 1650.3460 rd: 141.4177426519508
MikelTT 1648.4254 rd: 109.47018714620768
Flysanspower 1647.5091 rd: 75.08076021982883
Vinnie50 1647.0933 rd: 89.62730721778804
Rocky 1646.3920 rd: 239.55083454086272
Julio Sosa 1646.3920 rd: 233.58093842520546
Ew1368 1646.1900 rd: 117.09949162860354
Alexglide 1644.6145 rd: 79.16920538267642
ChrisBarrott 1643.4772 rd: 86.73507289932317
Ericinexile 1643.0949 rd: 106.49380004408133
Losnively 1642.9542 rd: 152.97291886999972
S19 1642.0341 rd: 102.22728343420391
Zakrzak 1639.2124 rd: 146.59707913372034
MCFulcrum 1636.6195 rd: 147.13247414043104
Martin Ochoa 1636.4810 rd: 72.68776616250877
Phoebus 1636.1083 rd: 144.7384298722894
Minskiy 1635.5214 rd: 152.97276233803328
Ermy 1634.1862 rd: 93.7556246748955
DeltaLima 1633.4128 rd: 139.46319516317476
RaiderOne (RO) 1630.6860 rd: 140.63016606350942
Psf 1629.5119 rd: 61.97494393866931
Martinztti 1628.9982 rd: 84.09429365298206
Rallek 1626.1057 rd: 85.29482577370482
HELIAS REGIS 1624.1410 rd: 154.09708214370806
Tornavi 1624.0595 rd: 121.6087840858691
Pgoreczny 1622.8215 rd: 69.94238736673599
Wiktor34 1622.5814 rd: 63.40899876484617
Marpilot 1619.2366 rd: 57.240318625854215
Cpt. Frikadel 1619.1596 rd: 151.78696375531916
Norbe 1618.9310 rd: 161.86911442706625
Oldrich Slavicek 1611.7138 rd: 142.9863136545615
PiedAlu 1611.6774 rd: 92.84577404682506
R Semo 1610.8697 rd: 176.72871086715395
AdamHJY 1610.0370 rd: 152.38332431927225
Tomasz/GD5/ 1608.9390 rd: 154.82616135067974
Guy DIJON 1608.4732 rd: 152.97226324880288
Edurigon (#8) 1605.9675 rd: 58.741118094896855
Wuerfel 1603.3717 rd: 79.4261039532191
KrizOsijek 1603.3516 rd: 144.12985053644653
Xavier Bousquet 1602.5376 rd: 151.08783563744038
CELIO PIMENTA 1602.2945 rd: 156.30177553285583
Eldon gifford 1601.5289 rd: 187.97724148501874
Lucas via (#7) 1600.3268 rd: 66.34802150625839
Gypaete B. 1598.4317 rd: 96.20434384329664
VashGen 1597.8731 rd: 103.97637992856508
Beefgravy 1597.6281 rd: 117.09937984588407
Aurelien.kameriez 1595.2867 rd: 176.09895567119315
LJanzam 1593.3963 rd: 94.91240721282931
Olimarec 1593.3879 rd: 151.84974194416452
CSchuwirth 1592.2082 rd: 60.48464375956242
Sistem 1591.9986 rd: 124.7357815408119
Zejdla 1590.2499 rd: 158.09906594693126
Ccalamante 1588.3128 rd: 65.84927681575995
Zampachr 1585.9724 rd: 175.7637768907896
DavisChappins 1584.7332 rd: 74.13128624820472
Cristian Martinez 1583.4257 rd: 48.86602386284332
Davidforzy 1582.8756 rd: 145.5810606753159
PH722 WW 1582.3001 rd: 123.22882034113863
Coolrastaman 1580.3882 rd: 109.67538252451752
Raiper 1579.4896 rd: 111.24302672148956
SCALABRIN 1578.6466 rd: 117.72825381314082
Vostok 1577.1290 rd: 86.88905419167418
Vaice 1576.0288 rd: 95.78956390853308
WalterVidela 1575.5573 rd: 66.85277410082662
Geza 1574.2565 rd: 108.3856693217005
Skipper17 1574.0964 rd: 131.7519955603151
Marianito 1572.9725 rd: 76.48763866651672
Reynald parent 1572.6669 rd: 93.62064375267126
D-5526 1571.5824 rd: 179.49924328943416
AlexZander 1569.4251 rd: 176.72822908588884
Stefke 1568.7511 rd: 152.9717308854856
Ventus2a 1568.6875 rd: 138.5469950056333
Tommes 1567.6358 rd: 140.26636033129074
Marc Schrder IWZ 1567.1587 rd: 147.07906241987732
Manufick 1565.5461 rd: 219.1449191390263
Domasz 1564.8671 rd: 95.99390375120241
Apieper 1564.5194 rd: 58.538422405499716
VH-GPL 1564.0405 rd: 76.26615656781657
Yuji_Kataoka 1563.5063 rd: 229.16893212383414
J3P 1562.5172 rd: 133.6208858536554
Korkiley 1562.1709 rd: 172.40748706714817
Jancsika 1561.3184 rd: 152.97165777561605
Quiquemanso 1561.2424 rd: 81.78303373877014
EDB 1561.1101 rd: 72.05269075265873
Marek Baran 1559.9996 rd: 54.13112062832656
Wgrupa 1558.8370 rd: 124.37253366195547
Fabio Daniele 1558.1988 rd: 63.58744666215131
Bigand-M 1556.0910 rd: 64.89241678146661
Gosper 1554.9852 rd: 161.86871490325836
Andrea 1554.3080 rd: 91.37684476081259
Matkop 1554.0136 rd: 213.4854422125393
Paulo.Menezes(Koka) 1553.8852 rd: 156.30144367391122
SEGUI 1551.9559 rd: 92.49508115953525
Chris Emerson 1549.0661 rd: 117.09931259308716
3C 1548.2398 rd: 125.89193182241827
H. Bentheim 1548.0754 rd: 149.09774380553853
R.Badham 1547.5300 rd: 64.25510327094284
Ssolfa 1547.0793 rd: 215.9034171307843
Lanko 1546.6263 rd: 182.24427845024434
Aanne3 1546.5728 rd: 113.5142094342265
Ctietz 1546.4867 rd: 138.54682764288106
Kostas Kostalampros 1545.3847 rd: 152.38305203398505
Juanmartinbagnis vn1 (#9) 1545.1775 rd: 56.797271644458704
MarceloCenci 1544.6615 rd: 89.22383379079503
GIGGI 71 1543.9217 rd: 144.67495839327898
DimitriChalles 1539.0000 rd: 144.80226094672977
Dgilou 1538.9867 rd: 180.04387803623732
Araldo 1535.5389 rd: 139.47759918718427
Ronny 1535.3526 rd: 179.2413104283415
Michal Szalek 1534.7371 rd: 176.9607346331703
DELGADO.L 1534.6327 rd: 85.23566565974268
Jarecki1979 1534.5645 rd: 95.7048050198671
JPT 1534.4926 rd: 83.66250387836789
Borika 1534.0231 rd: 148.11876660948536
Lionel - 4V 1532.8034 rd: 128.125015550596
Carlos Jimenez CJ 1532.5487 rd: 108.64388134060464
Eman 1531.2749 rd: 125.74772020979164
Dikennek (viper) 1530.6813 rd: 104.6143791812719
Philippe VDD 1529.2005 rd: 117.88391526744682
Honzaaf 1529.0291 rd: 152.97143716773135
Isarien 1528.2828 rd: 175.7634345728063
KristofferdS 1528.1063 rd: 211.45636242967137
MichalCenzartowicz 1527.5506 rd: 108.00683489724044
Kelvin vanBaalen 1527.2980 rd: 109.53578482337149
Olli1770 1525.9957 rd: 141.19289292089925
Niklasl 1524.2861 rd: 138.54672480252202
Foxlima13 1523.6607 rd: 145.36070867443112
Peter Toth 1522.4325 rd: 154.28317670442212
Frederic 1520.2642 rd: 82.5482027691322
Tuomas Parnanen 1517.6166 rd: 79.58062822172003
Le mime 1516.8674 rd: 121.37408245661666
Peter Suchan 1516.1386 rd: 214.34132760923274
Nbz 1514.4993 rd: 152.199773201429
Terry1954 TF1 1513.3614 rd: 137.56885997738732
Santiago demodena 1509.5210 rd: 82.6768551746523
Bbonamin 1508.1574 rd: 82.04491419697058
Spirals 1507.4446 rd: 54.5800536235045
Pupush 1506.7307 rd: 152.97137686833742
Alejandro.Goni 1504.8357 rd: 136.39424241080454
Zok 1504.5587 rd: 140.40783102277297
Daniel L 1502.1500 rd: 99.3838464199622
RAM's 1501.7875 rd: 53.494332800959725
Vlovs 1501.6972 rd: 128.3418541784923
Chrisp 1501.0830 rd: 146.35506076649597
Kestrel!9 1500.5042 rd: 117.09928986759444
DC 1500.0000 rd: 269.623839014772
JSmiley 1499.7639 rd: 77.82745221103075
Sam Betz 1499.0870 rd: 52.23275763501948
Jaume 1498.3310 rd: 128.12497902487897
Chris Oxholm - EPX 1496.1300 rd: 140.36214782311256
SteveC 1495.1809 rd: 105.13922195018546
Rafael-YV 1494.7375 rd: 104.83833296874738
Ryfaren 1493.3034 rd: 182.24415075444202
VidasB 1492.8633 rd: 95.99386094102302
Brunoc 1492.7514 rd: 84.09381204069068
Walter lomb 1491.7662 rd: 92.23321871608822
Twists 1488.4599 rd: 147.30310445606958
EirikBM 1486.9882 rd: 80.23452704703577
Olexandr Novikov 1486.9016 rd: 72.11555853036883
Finoty 1486.4398 rd: 64.7104635716728
JP21 1486.0045 rd: 144.80222050558208
Kurt weiner 1485.8422 rd: 109.1752026020851
PhilippeFP 1484.7643 rd: 105.36274312138504
Vasama 1484.4324 rd: 152.97139176946155
C.Glover 1484.0613 rd: 124.69623042426447
Bob Fielder 1482.5014 rd: 142.72895436567123
Aviatormark 1482.3351 rd: 134.87379363619283
Ixil08 1481.8489 rd: 79.42607360224697
Ricsventus 1480.7325 rd: 152.38300627961425
Yeti 1479.8549 rd: 131.84916458630602
Bandi 1479.3049 rd: 154.91877562925933
Rasmus M 1479.2037 rd: 88.38323757687644
MatteoSauli 1478.5328 rd: 105.13923767772127
Piama 1477.6960 rd: 93.10266023860999
GoaWay 1476.9996 rd: 152.97141344773152
Koala 1475.5998 rd: 224.38204003510546
Raduga 1475.0255 rd: 131.0759329467751
Facufernandez 1474.0883 rd: 74.94205171274548
Fabio Weber 1473.9746 rd: 174.587094995046
Rogerio Coutinho 1472.2688 rd: 107.32489925449663
Julio C Perez (#6) 1470.1258 rd: 56.71954347774684
Lospisman 1469.5226 rd: 73.1092032922569
OBsoaring 1468.8150 rd: 169.63018109702946
HenryMorrisKHV 1468.5731 rd: 97.1432373353736
Harald Scheimzuber 1466.9802 rd: 120.45986564540748
HP14 1466.9291 rd: 116.19045654395094
Jake Matthews 1466.4589 rd: 141.5377097501729
Matoayail 1466.3209 rd: 118.56776892149179
Michael Abell 1465.7116 rd: 98.49546727141576
Marco22 1462.1340 rd: 152.97148187120604
SBANDU 1461.8846 rd: 105.13927332704003
IntiWaman 1460.9294 rd: 132.10484935369658
Skizzo 1460.8572 rd: 72.63598493858872
RianMonnahan 1460.7051 rd: 151.19184921662
CSIMONNEAUD 1460.7046 rd: 82.71507573126372
Julio Cesar Perez 1460.3897 rd: 90.85978013284132
Fabricamp 1459.3999 rd: 92.64533615954608
BrunoCamposBCS 1457.0668 rd: 156.3013971316089
Chenque 1455.9657 rd: 141.41716483092603
Zeljko Livancic ZL7 1455.3685 rd: 75.16014732580885
Aradac 1454.8840 rd: 125.29050522234851
Xavier 1454.8835 rd: 104.61441991720096
Flowmo 1454.5190 rd: 151.38171068739308
Cowtreat 1453.2395 rd: 113.5142099815737
Freddy Suurland 1452.2413 rd: 150.5567890859233
Benke 1449.6027 rd: 213.48542277148906
Jantar2 1448.0406 rd: 105.43886063472556
Pavel Schukin 1447.7638 rd: 164.9426821557921
D. Roemer D-1503 1447.6416 rd: 145.9836446034868
GV1 1445.8981 rd: 139.97144480713422
Leadefilpo 1444.5495 rd: 74.84834287547496
J. Nemecek 1444.2261 rd: 63.43576238215644
T Hurn 1443.7296 rd: 76.02193372638894
Bre901 1443.5078 rd: 80.82122925787297
Rudekowal 1443.3221 rd: 67.35784851734192
9era 1441.1341 rd: 134.17684396279952
E.nyberg 1439.9805 rd: 182.2443641138913
Leglsch 1439.8356 rd: 152.9716471742016
Spiross 1439.7160 rd: 134.8310444671909
Cpasfaux 1439.4250 rd: 188.9057739722889
L.Faitz 1438.7851 rd: 167.9812700166645
Toddthahn 1437.4572 rd: 92.18027347156834
Andrzej Czop 1436.9746 rd: 187.09240585233357
Saik 1436.1814 rd: 148.88337556725003
Bela Kocsis 1435.2793 rd: 158.09878809805156
Krokodylak 1434.5535 rd: 157.31461001207822
Pere 1433.0090 rd: 144.80235149043807
Marcincia13 1432.9306 rd: 138.35621935917234
Szymon Kolek 1431.0922 rd: 176.72822447231061
Vlautert 1429.7581 rd: 202.8100931267286
Terry Navarro 1429.7351 rd: 215.90354174193004
Martindarrain 1428.9346 rd: 79.5383536535709
Nic27 1425.3707 rd: 164.94288340705114
Treckerface1973 1424.9701 rd: 152.9717991552179
Tomasz L 1423.9426 rd: 176.9610128795287
Adamos79 1423.8471 rd: 161.67308189947929
JuanVastik 1423.4266 rd: 75.45569374587784
TvR 1423.3831 rd: 87.3398559791815
Bluejet 1423.1854 rd: 110.04832587316196
Mapettar 1422.4815 rd: 105.13943707851665
Alpha-zoulou 1421.8014 rd: 147.77784007431313
Marc blanjean 1421.6110 rd: 131.22543140369436
Dc2mw 1421.5359 rd: 149.17089100348238
Xtralite147 1421.4891 rd: 152.62787763012642
Fang 1419.9352 rd: 146.35510670950637
S Vidal SVL 1418.3690 rd: 128.12520570716356
Macsimc 1417.5373 rd: 152.9718876795991
001london 1417.0826 rd: 137.43561304723636
Lianpu 1417.0682 rd: 138.71449492153215
G.bnt 1416.4992 rd: 101.1989501184009
DaHugs 1416.0802 rd: 152.38318705311218
Carlos Garberi 1415.7362 rd: 78.69977949016837
ZK 1415.5337 rd: 187.9770432103292
XCNuse 1414.5719 rd: 91.17925639253949
Carlos E. Contreras 1412.3555 rd: 84.09403353772778
PIT 1411.6478 rd: 60.30291387565128
Pat Luneville 1410.8927 rd: 163.0688826142099
Rcy 1406.0270 rd: 148.07973764222447
Stefano74 1405.8334 rd: 105.13953980245849
Holza 1405.7914 rd: 136.93227689625323
RevelladoGonza (#14) 1405.1318 rd: 76.66346437778171
Seijffert 1403.7838 rd: 138.54729214170538
AGO 1403.5436 rd: 115.71572127726199
Jmuelas 1403.3864 rd: 141.41737160725313
Raik 1400.7987 rd: 144.9854226370039
Willy 1400.1136 rd: 152.9721279483599
H. Ziegler 1397.7266 rd: 179.49957510475278
Paczo1 1395.2965 rd: 159.6501701113373
Ka6jab 1393.6845 rd: 69.58854769684028
AlexHolswilder 1393.0230 rd: 85.33033766833174
Funglider 1392.7335 rd: 114.31837574057079
Brad Soanes 1391.0307 rd: 83.15123393977959
Mgclements 1390.4711 rd: 117.09940312048644
T.Rogacki 1390.3552 rd: 260.9214247157246
Rvidal911 1390.1748 rd: 134.2724556241634
P51 1389.9971 rd: 151.2601880828073
Gliderpilotmp 1389.1852 rd: 105.13966244943478
Carlitos 1388.2032 rd: 84.09417339331306
Saeroglt 1386.6575 rd: 182.24491853770283
Polach Petr 1385.7947 rd: 158.33663577643355
1K 1385.3480 rd: 106.2295661721608
Jose basilico (#12) 1385.1563 rd: 105.22975994641644
Renequeiroz 1384.4265 rd: 153.3127558973016
Hugochoy 1382.7631 rd: 95.21707070750797
Devisddf 1382.7299 rd: 90.15735659743994
Juhaszbe 1382.6899 rd: 152.97241413544435
Dambou 1382.2456 rd: 137.4075341378834
Javo99 1380.0159 rd: 84.16812976988443
PjS 1379.6622 rd: 114.35393694997474
RafaRS8 1378.7444 rd: 169.63049193682815
X5 1378.6386 rd: 161.12477597042192
Hans Iron 1377.3877 rd: 146.35111010523428
Franck6440 1376.8544 rd: 148.14469644284003
NATTHI 1375.1984 rd: 154.28425571498266
ACSnoopy 1373.5627 rd: 145.0366969279854
Lori 1372.5371 rd: 105.1398050199531
BNL-17 1371.2822 rd: 148.04061747585382
DHayday 1370.9793 rd: 141.538213477751
Zopp 1370.0476 rd: 148.1448228603037
Thermal (ZA) 1370.0283 rd: 166.97784547080045
Juanse76 1369.1391 rd: 79.9827013238568
Norby10 1368.6123 rd: 138.13937276994483
Eric Schverdorffer ES 1368.1396 rd: 148.0399204221639
JacekJJ 1367.8243 rd: 152.9726946064693
Manes 1365.7634 rd: 77.23983434949854
Vor250 1365.4030 rd: 172.26023314735548
JWulf 1365.1715 rd: 98.237081692045
Bodo 1364.5932 rd: 70.52869446849299
Rui Silva 1361.7393 rd: 78.44085603078382
Nicolas Verdura (#15) 1361.5789 rd: 60.22962731693751
Alfonsordah 1360.7146 rd: 97.14346879538678
Nissed 1360.3915 rd: 152.97284737687093
A. Muller 1360.2483 rd: 156.30217349682397
Sky.high 1359.7035 rd: 187.9778272152926
AlexLapadu 1358.9117 rd: 104.61508525759308
Alanm (ATM) 1358.7346 rd: 167.98173585766946
Leitorp 1358.4826 rd: 137.79423140553817
BHudson 1358.2172 rd: 109.03842426104192
NimbusV6 1355.8565 rd: 142.43116925189443
Juan SanMartin 1353.6080 rd: 233.58093842520546
Florian Schmetzer 3T 1353.6080 rd: 239.55083454086272
Tomarnem 1353.2512 rd: 141.96355071885964
JamesN 1352.7779 rd: 232.19554080290007
Jkaraceylan 1351.4280 rd: 152.38359436651544
Jose3f 1350.8071 rd: 141.4177329942787
Foka 1349.4785 rd: 124.8570823645204
Mebarg 1349.4326 rd: 84.09446873249117
Mlucarno 1347.6782 rd: 82.00952163613312
Lucasgoldenzweig 1347.3279 rd: 161.4126725433921
Feri 1346.8420 rd: 72.3161901677922
David354 1346.7732 rd: 100.63995003030605
Vydasg 1345.4428 rd: 147.13260214962327
Nscherr 1344.8649 rd: 144.9858220566272
LSD90 1341.9092 rd: 117.09952581648773
YUR 1341.3494 rd: 139.16342571339328
Erwin vA 1340.9923 rd: 107.40049606872887
FELIPE JARPA 1339.9610 rd: 127.30476843583851
S.Bianchi (#13) 1338.9913 rd: 105.22976005266148
BarryTurner 1338.7873 rd: 146.35524706359473
Aviaattori 1338.3733 rd: 225.58183672510935
David_fr33 1336.7542 rd: 166.9887452729553
Eolo007 1335.1783 rd: 105.14019747287568
Xiongmao 1335.0066 rd: 162.53653828245658
Klaus Vang XYF 1334.8709 rd: 133.73180902730323
ONDRYS 1334.5202 rd: 91.35162593493017
Volavka 1333.3851 rd: 137.20745724287818
D38 1332.9900 rd: 176.72971673678532
Haakan 1332.7184 rd: 139.03407271926008
Paco Redondo 1332.0380 rd: 57.93096637024594
Chepur 1330.6603 rd: 152.9735420272387
Fabrice 1329.0200 rd: 150.65453015423074
Dolpiper 1328.7209 rd: 126.11093388816828
Xantyp 1328.4621 rd: 79.42615887531738
Fabry_distefano 1326.8613 rd: 85.02500028409972
Josechanes@gmail.com 1324.8770 rd: 119.49867487447614
Bobby Royal 1323.9452 rd: 117.71369934884025
Willsontugg 1323.2395 rd: 141.53868725596018
Aiglon77 1322.5914 rd: 135.25882209655032
Bunke 1321.0598 rd: 141.64281046704684
Max Maslak MLM 1320.9548 rd: 178.4952318329433
Phil_deLaine 1320.2496 rd: 132.03537336070704
Happyharry 1320.2294 rd: 150.86507697883636
Paul foster psf 1318.4466 rd: 137.1338844369551
JF Gombault 1318.3572 rd: 245.67944747979772
Glider88 1316.8842 rd: 173.76860572645452
Bernard BRUN 1316.8086 rd: 105.9447880205412
Kimtoppari 1316.2231 rd: 144.97660813661076
DANIEL LUNEVILLE 1315.9894 rd: 140.38317795793594
Jakec 1315.7074 rd: 110.03442468471525
Stevebr1 1314.2416 rd: 138.50089205677554
Aero 1314.0731 rd: 147.56057883529982
Tomasz Zwolinski 1312.8683 rd: 176.9627897142479
Siketzsolt 1312.0965 rd: 139.97369067724404
Jefferson (JEF) 1311.8391 rd: 156.30287029995128
JOHN 5YA 1310.9765 rd: 71.96759636653651
Minik Frank 1310.9714 rd: 147.52992528503356
Christof Buettner 1308.2259 rd: 159.11968086253478
Anton Lovi 1308.1074 rd: 147.28247514854831
Hubert 1307.9415 rd: 150.09549304643127
Nimapoggy 1307.6795 rd: 104.61572124330857
Mikko 1306.1748 rd: 81.61777460237981
Zadmalck 1305.5920 rd: 135.94453252586325
Johanp 1305.1044 rd: 264.9658783665902
Smoke 1304.2897 rd: 78.31123919839776
Simonmeissner95 1302.9838 rd: 179.5013385102876
Duzgis 1302.9108 rd: 95.9942604834247
Steve Butler 1302.8340 rd: 172.26117911485514
Nbrandt 1302.2939 rd: 82.27627001366525
SIZ 1301.8820 rd: 105.14063181434297
Laurent LM1 1301.1960 rd: 119.06888349230168
Kulki 1298.5661 rd: 131.88740711159542
Sejr uller 1297.1642 rd: 148.14660272223878
RFelix 1296.6651 rd: 116.36895185604338
Olevold 1295.0452 rd: 141.96402877596904
Jez 1293.3472 rd: 117.09969304809484
Luis Caler 1292.9534 rd: 98.63537063620683
Jlazr 1292.3962 rd: 104.61594882535765
Versor22 1291.5641 rd: 175.01811083179007
Brotons pascal 1291.0120 rd: 164.9455830136377
Wadsworth 1290.9269 rd: 113.51550732805407
Reinhold 1290.2679 rd: 76.4227241955004
RobieStrony 1289.9415 rd: 152.88477306099156
Robyfly RF 1289.5307 rd: 189.86511877193735
MCapps 1286.7757 rd: 152.38422824693944
Diegosalido 1286.4476 rd: 77.88256767176118
Bidass 1286.2530 rd: 150.17138230033237
D.Schaeffler 1283.2713 rd: 147.13316791135895
Valerii Izvolskii 1283.1104 rd: 148.69356999870956
GliderpilotBAS 1282.5074 rd: 92.11959950230163
Pml3 1281.4136 rd: 97.33331784182468
Bernard L. 1281.2446 rd: 146.12739546282373
Flafly63 1280.5953 rd: 83.13510904327056
Josef Sykora 1278.6841 rd: 167.98257008889215
R1 1278.6830 rd: 148.050959976304
Grijander 1278.4990 rd: 81.59075892350648
Ariel SSM 1277.5063 rd: 116.17785686112744
Tic-Tac 1277.4526 rd: 147.08237196458506
K-mill 1277.1128 rd: 104.61619380567691
AntonW 1275.7761 rd: 76.64748155181783
NobleWizard 1275.4997 rd: 141.53930899784677
296 1275.1815 rd: 158.62495674730354
FinnTindal 1274.4245 rd: 138.4253827521277
Birgilzio 1274.4074 rd: 133.62209224182448
Major98 1273.3635 rd: 127.75561578967552
Gelo2 1273.2158 rd: 126.74212441277167
CHD-CHDEN 1272.6717 rd: 94.7759110281911
Jjt 1271.3749 rd: 133.95677410567748
Jbruna 1269.4868 rd: 82.61032540725654
LP 1269.0855 rd: 152.47087156754932
Mzeddd 1268.4641 rd: 89.62788796935489
CarlosCucu 1268.2522 rd: 95.18601608243284
Cristian Phillips 1266.2007 rd: 94.16680674887316
PUPI 1266.0988 rd: 176.9639866506227
Frank Ermecke 1265.1932 rd: 83.74398075958165
Kusiport 1264.3382 rd: 152.6120074127475
Jorgemarmor 1263.6195 rd: 110.79304939313057
Reginaldo 1263.4298 rd: 156.30377288096494
LEAN 1263.1595 rd: 151.90254195006145
Breznai Janos 1262.1049 rd: 130.42499560467954
IMcF 1260.5260 rd: 206.6374204901839
Jplatasv 1260.2055 rd: 91.85289650417631
Michele CSR 1259.2367 rd: 74.20725860740286
Marcodelta 1258.3699 rd: 115.84245736295978
SJDobby_SD3 1257.6395 rd: 146.35548184419707
GrungePilot 1257.3010 rd: 139.97532729692057
Sorbilli 1254.6909 rd: 116.0964804269075
HF1-GILOU 1253.1418 rd: 151.51724443579627
Zsevison 1252.7206 rd: 98.65641394705472
Cumulusotter 1251.7093 rd: 137.59895257400353
Laszlo70 1251.1686 rd: 150.56138674999877
Gusandreoni 1249.6551 rd: 111.15272235786067
Andy 1248 1248.7584 rd: 138.1133098725896
G-NUDL 1248.7451 rd: 88.96337921318442
Filipejsf 1248.1425 rd: 128.12713781773658
Hoggwild 1248.0429 rd: 187.98056388169846
Rhein25 1247.6551 rd: 89.62807087580984
MOm 1246.7236 rd: 130.93218472531393
Mangirdas115 1245.6268 rd: 88.64209921883513
ATZJOKER 1245.5288 rd: 127.60593555212627
Renda 1245.0770 rd: 126.27668158617917
Adriel Cuesta 1244.7927 rd: 83.5758783038908
Dead_albatross 1244.7852 rd: 117.09990482181935
ToninoTarsi 1243.8533 rd: 63.85990254645322
Mahzel 1242.7995 rd: 138.55101640766338
Richardb 1242.2678 rd: 148.14845818520615
Radi 1242.2665 rd: 79.42626732777057
JAP 1241.8554 rd: 149.05190329965941
Fab-007 1241.5417 rd: 148.49253864887507
Nybba 1241.2789 rd: 185.1843649112611
Antoine71260 1240.2649 rd: 172.2624819752877
Guilherme.ranna 1237.2406 rd: 174.58834882694651
Pato Caro 1237.1315 rd: 75.46332264264433
HandsFree 1236.8391 rd: 141.9646651079441
FXB 1234.5995 rd: 111.02649895440182
Arnaud 1233.0177 rd: 148.39163046797154
Aleksandras 1232.5297 rd: 95.9945972637341
TKoziczkowski 1231.9079 rd: 84.38025503342337
GabrielMHOZ 1231.8619 rd: 187.89518949835985
Frits Schneider 1231.6741 rd: 175.51103281064212
Cero 1231.3929 rd: 79.58160193714507
Cjkaiser1 1231.2317 rd: 113.5163985948187
Nicola (NBE) 1230.9610 rd: 105.14182268217675
MRH - Arnaud 1230.1006 rd: 128.63851339030464
Richard Maisonpierre #5192 1227.8718 rd: 165.20872493648636
AliE131 1227.7598 rd: 141.54007872554376
Hugomiguelmm81 1226.6917 rd: 133.6227035458703
Canastel9g 1223.0316 rd: 162.538981475879
LibelleGeoff 1222.1235 rd: 152.38508873662124
Jcmasche 1219.6953 rd: 84.09609189820395
Christeagle 1219.3343 rd: 148.14936434886167
Pablog 1218.2452 rd: 137.04446139705223
Harasky 1217.7776 rd: 79.42630608731064
Maversa70@gmail.com 1216.1312 rd: 81.39803340534452
CA1976 1215.4326 rd: 162.57418231999753
Dvh33 1215.1315 rd: 127.29776767803226
Iffen5 1214.2175 rd: 182.2490467620695
Cookie 1214.1310 rd: 93.36137250804175
Esteban Pettenazza 1213.8483 rd: 69.58278019754815
Daf29 1213.4193 rd: 99.50751712375937
EC-CHC 1213.2401 rd: 87.21480438683162
6266 1211.7485 rd: 114.93053321923686
Rodolfo 1211.5132 rd: 93.85103447443531
Madcat 1211.4529 rd: 152.97767024821206
Me100jan 1211.3036 rd: 148.7918167828768
Crash 1209.9819 rd: 232.19837292270395
Tanodos 1209.5907 rd: 75.41962152722658
Gaustein 1208.9170 rd: 91.95976695644697
Hquint 1208.2410 rd: 179.50421862668702
Kusti Alasalmi 1207.2159 rd: 239.55403593966759
Renaud 1206.7832 rd: 109.6766474228357
Sotaventix 1206.7524 rd: 137.45431432712942
CW 1206.2134 rd: 139.97722848903885
FDI 1205.7332 rd: 144.4471199734112
Vnks 1205.1377 rd: 113.51685815610195
Micastany 1204.6429 rd: 83.66298250908652
Rimaroc88 - VET 1204.0201 rd: 152.97799886334823
Andrew Teclaw 1202.6047 rd: 96.87382780236439
Stasys 1201.8118 rd: 95.9947762518705
Pascual Conejero Cantos 1201.4396 rd: 164.9488040650704
Andrea AG 1198.2261 rd: 147.08542620244262
Jffuchs 1197.6647 rd: 105.14250654573844
HarberDJH 1196.2233 rd: 117.10016114624035
JAOlsen 1195.6617 rd: 138.55274926326967
Santi.Monti 1195.5430 rd: 84.09650202992596
Ramiro rico 1195.0467 rd: 215.90757544563473
JanisTeteris 1193.2888 rd: 79.42634836428743
GonzaRevellado 1192.4745 rd: 122.53550422630028
Mkauzlar 1192.2771 rd: 147.08569281481448
Adam Jarecki 1191.0852 rd: 95.05924130401833
B. Fries 1190.8842 rd: 142.67689972778652
S.Wlodek 1190.6393 rd: 158.3414923315349
DanyD (L72) 1189.1545 rd: 152.97868117704598
Jonathan_UV 1188.6087 rd: 72.87905228328536
Viloka 1187.1338 rd: 118.3959090282038
Jl.kowal 1186.3280 rd: 147.08596463390913
Djernis 1186.1353 rd: 175.5126402840888
Pierfax 1183.7164 rd: 93.26544702780197
Roby-69 1183.0551 rd: 92.7091629605377
Pete.Farrimond 1181.9036 rd: 169.6324500637547
Peter Robson 1180.0200 rd: 141.5409964698429
J McConathy 1180.0189 rd: 175.1530047192239
Gballou 1179.0438 rd: 113.51736029104877
Turtle 1178.6278 rd: 163.04061511057805
John Duke 1176.4916 rd: 146.35581107868316
Yautay 1175.8407 rd: 183.9607967711212
Dcarrattini 1175.5238 rd: 109.34803029105048
Riviere 1174.2889 rd: 152.97939693833595
Tatonext 1174.2216 rd: 161.41497090521923
Japo32 1174.1615 rd: 161.87242086954885
Philthehorn 1173.9238 rd: 97.1445616559559
Eroland 1173.5227 rd: 138.5536635767005
Alberto Boria 1172.4129 rd: 95.12740326637358
Alexrazor 1171.0939 rd: 95.99497469075534
Toivo Wiikari TW 1169.8042 rd: 123.93578237089919
JHO 1169.2086 rd: 106.50216764374997
Brito 1168.8542 rd: 128.12871130316918
Jtl 1168.8000 rd: 79.42639415932311
Gervazio Rodrigues 1166.6114 rd: 156.30619552226995
Janus101 1165.9784 rd: 154.29112884979133
Andrewkon 1165.3387 rd: 160.19500212766195
Egidiobabbi 1164.3684 rd: 105.14327015764557
NT 1163.6662 rd: 111.0283319580359
Dane60 1162.9307 rd: 148.15192157076697
Sylle 1161.7684 rd: 156.62622985329432
Tango-1 1161.4346 rd: 104.83871512855181
DNI 1161.4002 rd: 144.56943449357442
PROUTBIRD J66 1161.3204 rd: 148.9998163859952
TimNL 1160.9524 rd: 157.28745141765614
Blackfarmer 1160.8696 rd: 179.50607758049225
Skarlezib 1160.3780 rd: 134.27487144726987
Martinck 1160.1255 rd: 211.46248433291802
DavidHBS 1157.4712 rd: 152.38617590198274
Dpalgan 1155.0245 rd: 176.96789541497003
ErXino 1153.4552 rd: 74.05054542852433
SoarSail 1152.9498 rd: 113.51790500647832
Walter Pat 1152.7895 rd: 154.2917722315023
Guy.P 1151.0730 rd: 132.91589326634136
Feil 1150.8913 rd: 147.00559844606187
Marcelo Lopez 1149.9301 rd: 101.70902552314605
Mauheb 1149.4142 rd: 111.0287524140913
Chris G 1147.6613 rd: 117.10046203401403
Nuutti97 1146.5148 rd: 144.98011913554524
Kerenyid 1144.8663 rd: 158.74953600291568
Mariechristian 1144.3155 rd: 97.91224526593199
Kikevillar 1140.6995 rd: 121.2435275179458
Lennox89 1140.4480 rd: 144.9887765100622
TomC 1138.9798 rd: 177.77791796516374
Jicub 1138.4971 rd: 152.6848454665728
JAZ 1138.1227 rd: 64.31212163881246
Michel Valade 1137.2313 rd: 137.84618084002247
Cumulus_prime 1136.9754 rd: 147.13524701105746
Jm.fallet 1136.3824 rd: 187.98485924956137
Paynterf 1135.3315 rd: 145.85734766281925
Flavio.a319 1135.0748 rd: 174.58952517319514
Delicarepi 1134.9366 rd: 213.0816400561547
Jhelizon 1134.4361 rd: 89.14034623599854
Miguel jurado MA 1134.3817 rd: 128.1295289868524
Kessa 1133.4999 rd: 104.34475126902767
Tom Eagles CV2 1132.6805 rd: 143.30814044890604
BUS 1132.5971 rd: 152.28793622767097
AnneS396 1132.2802 rd: 141.54206227260988
Nuckel 1132.0465 rd: 138.91388639235768
Ste 1131.0721 rd: 105.14411352976852
Tom1701 1129.6922 rd: 152.98174493416334
Sailplane62 1128.2361 rd: 139.9808288461163
Rellekyhtac 1127.8883 rd: 85.08766568470475
Wrink-E-Dink 1126.8559 rd: 113.51849230891423
Tomas Butkevicius 1126.1096 rd: 86.37333675865368
Kawaz 1125.3471 rd: 86.68774389375665
Giuliodp 1124.0058 rd: 95.22769897977031
SC69 1123.2472 rd: 71.80182219473102
Piotr Jaszczuk 1122.3586 rd: 154.293351828687
Gray_Bear 1122.1879 rd: 139.9811433804026
DS_GLIDE 1121.2977 rd: 126.27982379831927
Danpal 1119.8299 rd: 95.80780370707416
Matias Aguero 1118.3298 rd: 104.83881868127912
Cldsoar 1117.7780 rd: 103.91385018945142
Dschinn 1117.1821 rd: 148.15433892809392
Clovis 1116.3204 rd: 132.04595425338658
Nickonanova 1116.1398 rd: 139.98146299445395
BrodA 1115.6239 rd: 147.08959394242524
Bulius02 1115.0871 rd: 89.62960567180968
Marci0522 1113.8611 rd: 102.9049655808805
MRegelink 1113.8475 rd: 104.61989674658415
Egon Jorgensen 1113.4681 rd: 121.52547710771763
Vranki 1112.2953 rd: 156.10931971920337
L OVNI 1111.8671 rd: 164.95316263967698
Jazz_82 1111.8048 rd: 79.42651436785975
S en ciel 1111.7913 rd: 157.28985725211854
BC1 1110.9724 rd: 81.53369322324775
Jancsi93 1110.0916 rd: 139.98178768846154
Enzo59 1110.0255 rd: 96.17370050479948
Reno Ramos 1109.6703 rd: 134.2757374097767
Tamas Pentz 1108.2549 rd: 176.9699903277532
Gubbola 1107.5716 rd: 182.25338595149188
Martin H 1106.6938 rd: 97.14516983113485
Esteban Pastoriza 1104.7872 rd: 109.3496006757414
John aggerhlm 1102.1064 rd: 151.73335047780287
Diegonatalini 1100.9388 rd: 84.09843499182814
PaulSlutes 1100.7619 rd: 113.5191222053906
Ffresnedarivas 1099.9092 rd: 128.130427647152
Matirra 1098.4681 rd: 113.87853100392964
Pottoman 1097.7758 rd: 105.14503667950382
MK7 1097.1880 rd: 137.21378423680773
HeikoSoaris 1096.0919 rd: 184.76017638541413
Blue 1094.8448 rd: 152.9837892080748
Spa06 1094.4681 rd: 158.34553251393473
SkyP1G 1093.5916 rd: 89.72955039418116
Danlam 1090.4774 rd: 84.09868068736405
Alemleonardo 1088.6638 rd: 101.71003922508636
HPO 1087.4548 rd: 138.55782824700015
Bicker 1087.2421 rd: 139.91814419198604
01MG 1087.0423 rd: 105.36498445307603
Christian49 1084.8645 rd: 166.99878989643733
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Tincho 1080.0160 rd: 84.0989327466411
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RTM 962.0193 rd: 128.1348324569658
Brian Skov Pedersen 953.8248454 rd: 179.47638550811848
V8Power 951.3349 rd: 139.99212794414535
Pwa 950.9038 rd: 138.9228015307113
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Erwin Rogge ER1 916.7041 rd: 213.09164618781352
Wuilolive 890.8874 rd: 86.11516014663772
Jean-louis Cornez 886.9536 rd: 88.41053643390242
Minimax 859.3251 rd: 138.75289454112513
Quant 836.0634 rd: 113.10009890895653
HarryHN1 816.6497 rd: 84.33792378225967
Carluciano 757.6017 rd: 87.88293571503179
Valcaselato (#16) 720.7755 rd: 87.54165772657112
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
The size of a competition or number of competitors doesn't really matter. Gliko2 system which is designed for 1v 1 games could be adapted in a following way: if there was 3 people in a rated race we can treat final results as a set of 1 v1 matches 1 won with 2, 1 won with 3, 2 lost with 1, 2 won with 3, 3 lost with 1 and 3 lost with 2. There might already be Glicko 2 adapted for multiplayer competitions. I hate FAI rating system. It is just not as good as statistical systems (like glicko) based on solid mathematics developed by mathematicians. with doctorates and publications in their field.
There are two most important aspects of the rating system we need.
1) Only competition against other pilots should affect the rating
2) ALL flights in a rated race must count.
So if there is a competition all races might not count towards the final competition standings, but all must be counted in the rating system. You should not be allowed to cancel the race just because you did badly. In chess if you play a bad game you can't say 'sorry let's not count that one...'There must be a way to stop people avoiding losing rating points if they done badly. For example if someone is just about to land out and disconnects and then does not sent ftr file he/she should still be counted in the rating calculations and should loose rating points. Simply put if you connect to a server with a rated race, your rating will be affected no matter if you win. lose or disconnect.
On CC competition managers should have an option to set competition as rated or unrated. If you fly in rated competition all your races (every time you connected to a server) should count in the rating calculations. There are many competitions over the year and I believe there should be sufficient data for rating system like this to work. Competition is the only way to penalize missing ftr files, unless there is another way to put out a server which will sent a log to CC with all results and disconnection logs to be included in rating calculations.
This rating systems work everywhere especially in chess (for example on Lichess website). I don't see we making it to work in condor should be impossible.
There are two most important aspects of the rating system we need.
1) Only competition against other pilots should affect the rating
2) ALL flights in a rated race must count.
So if there is a competition all races might not count towards the final competition standings, but all must be counted in the rating system. You should not be allowed to cancel the race just because you did badly. In chess if you play a bad game you can't say 'sorry let's not count that one...'There must be a way to stop people avoiding losing rating points if they done badly. For example if someone is just about to land out and disconnects and then does not sent ftr file he/she should still be counted in the rating calculations and should loose rating points. Simply put if you connect to a server with a rated race, your rating will be affected no matter if you win. lose or disconnect.
On CC competition managers should have an option to set competition as rated or unrated. If you fly in rated competition all your races (every time you connected to a server) should count in the rating calculations. There are many competitions over the year and I believe there should be sufficient data for rating system like this to work. Competition is the only way to penalize missing ftr files, unless there is another way to put out a server which will sent a log to CC with all results and disconnection logs to be included in rating calculations.
This rating systems work everywhere especially in chess (for example on Lichess website). I don't see we making it to work in condor should be impossible.
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Yes, it's already done (see my post above, you are #2 ), a race is converted to a set of matches: p1 won p2, p1 won p3, p2 won p3 (the match is counted a single time, so there is not p3 lost p1 for example).witor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:58 pmThe size of a competition or number of competitors doesn't really matter. Gliko2 system which is designed for 1v 1 games could be adapted in a following way: if there was 3 people in a rated race we can treat final results as a set of 1 v1 matches 1 won with 2, 1 won with 3, 2 lost with 1, 2 won with 3, 3 lost with 1 and 3 lost with 2. There might already be Glicko 2 adapted for multiplayer competitions.
Agreed, so no team. And no single task (out of any competition) because the rating period is not fixed (see just after).
Disagreed Glickman said: "The Glicko system works best when the number of games in a rating period is moderate, say an average of 5-10 games per player in a rating period. [...] Game outcomes would be observed, and then updated ratings and RD’s would be computed at the end of the rating period". Otherwise Rating Deviation would increase too much and the volatility could explode the rating if some players have an unusual bad day.
So I think the final competition ranking is perfect for this.
And we must keep in mind Condor is a virtual sport, we can't be as engaged as in a real - physical - competition (who, with social life , could be certain to be at the start line for the next 10 or 20 Saturday evening?) , this is why organisers may choose to keep only the N best races, which is also fair to the players who have done all the races.
That's already the case on CC. DSHelper sends server results to CC and a cross-check is done with the results I got. If I see a FTR is missing, the competitor has a score of 0 pt.
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
I still think that all races should count. Sometimes very good pilots take part in a competition and fly just couple of races. ( as you said people can not always fly - just life) As a result they end up on a distant place in a competition despite being better than most of the competitors. As a result they would end up with an untrue low rating which does not reflect they skill level, weaker pilots would gain rating they do not deserve and rating system is useless again...
I strongly advocate every rated flight to count. it should be based on individual races not whole competitions like everywhere else. For example in chess rating is adjusted after each game not at the end of the tournament. There are thousands of chess games played everyday on Lichess and rating system works just fine. People sometimes play 100 or more bullet games in a day. If for some reason it doesn't work for condor after trial then maybe some improvement could be made.
I am not sure if we will have too many races in a rating period. If this is a problem for glicko2 maybe another system would be more suitable like glicko1 or others that I have not heard of but are out there (have no idea what starcraft 2 uses for example)
I strongly advocate every rated flight to count. it should be based on individual races not whole competitions like everywhere else. For example in chess rating is adjusted after each game not at the end of the tournament. There are thousands of chess games played everyday on Lichess and rating system works just fine. People sometimes play 100 or more bullet games in a day. If for some reason it doesn't work for condor after trial then maybe some improvement could be made.
I am not sure if we will have too many races in a rating period. If this is a problem for glicko2 maybe another system would be more suitable like glicko1 or others that I have not heard of but are out there (have no idea what starcraft 2 uses for example)
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
1. I agree with witor that all races should count. F.x a competiton with 2 tasks, only the best telling
Pilot A: 500 / 500
Pilot B: 800 / 100
Pilot C: 800 / DNS
Competitions result
Pilot B: 800
Pilot C: 800
Pilot A: 500
Is B really equal to C? Is B better than A?
2. I see one problem in the whole rating: Disconnectet flights because of a crashed PC, it's outside of the influence of the Pilot, but he will be punished for that. If you find a solution for that, it's easy to crash the PC on purpose in a bad flight
Pilot A: 500 / 500
Pilot B: 800 / 100
Pilot C: 800 / DNS
Competitions result
Pilot B: 800
Pilot C: 800
Pilot A: 500
Is B really equal to C? Is B better than A?
2. I see one problem in the whole rating: Disconnectet flights because of a crashed PC, it's outside of the influence of the Pilot, but he will be punished for that. If you find a solution for that, it's easy to crash the PC on purpose in a bad flight
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Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
I think there also needs to be some way to bias results towards more recent results. Because pilots' skills change. So if someone new comes in and gets mediocre results at first, but later improves and starts dominating, then those old mediocre results shouldn't drag his total down, when he currently is the dominant pilot. The ranking should be the currently best pilots, not the entire history of condor-club (which would also be very static and rarely change, and hence not very interesting to follow).
Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
100% agree with that, I had noticed that many top pilots in the ranking table posted by BOD1 are total unknowns, never seen online or in recent competitions (I only started flying online and taking part in some competitions in 2018, when C2 arrived)arneh wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:24 amI think there also needs to be some way to bias results towards more recent results. Because pilots' skills change. So if someone new comes in and gets mediocre results at first, but later improves and starts dominating, then those old mediocre results shouldn't drag his total down, when he currently is the dominant pilot. The ranking should be the currently best pilots, not the entire history of condor-club (which would also be very static and rarely change, and hence not very interesting to follow).
As far as I can remember, in most soaring ranking systems, the competitions have a different weighing factors according to level (WGC, EGC, national, regional), which is not easy to achieve here, and also to age (more recent results have a higher factor)
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Re: Pilot ranking list - could we have something meaningful?
Let's not get distracted by real FAI ranking system, weightings, different competition factors and rubbish like this which makes people who fly more stand higher in the ranking list which does not necessary reflect the true skill of the pilots. I was never a fan of FAI ranking list, but that's a different story...
I just want to stress the most important reason why every race should count towards rating not just final competition standings. In CWC2021 we had more than 460 people registered. About 60 had the required 17 flights and very few actually flew all races which is usually the rule not the exception. Every missed flight can potentially negatively affect the final result of a pilot and would make rating untrue and not related to the actual skill of the pilot. To give you an extreme example Quinten Hermans (REA) finished in 263rd place. Do you really think we had 262 pilots better than REA in that competition? I don't think so...
I must say I am presently surprised by BOD1's response to my initial post. To be honest I though I will be ignored. I am so happy to see that there is a will to implement something that I was thinking about long time ago and I am optimistic that it will happen one day making CC even more awesome.
I just want to stress the most important reason why every race should count towards rating not just final competition standings. In CWC2021 we had more than 460 people registered. About 60 had the required 17 flights and very few actually flew all races which is usually the rule not the exception. Every missed flight can potentially negatively affect the final result of a pilot and would make rating untrue and not related to the actual skill of the pilot. To give you an extreme example Quinten Hermans (REA) finished in 263rd place. Do you really think we had 262 pilots better than REA in that competition? I don't think so...
Inactivity is taken into account in Glico2 rating system. If you don't fly your rating becomes unreliable and next time you lose a race your rating changes by a lot. If you are active your single win or loss does not change your rating by much.
I must say I am presently surprised by BOD1's response to my initial post. To be honest I though I will be ignored. I am so happy to see that there is a will to implement something that I was thinking about long time ago and I am optimistic that it will happen one day making CC even more awesome.