Gold badge verification logic issue

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Swissross
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Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Tue May 18, 2021 3:35 am

Completed this today. Submitted for verification. I chose the correct glider from Plane Class "ALL" instead of plane class "Club". Guess I'll fly it again...
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wickid
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by wickid » Tue May 18, 2021 5:17 am

Club is different from all, even if you select a clubclass glider in All class. Club class does not allow waterballast. All class does
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Bre901
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Bre901 » Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 am

Maybe you should have taken a look at the rules at the top of that page: https://www.condor.club/badge/145/
The flight can be done off-line or in a multiplayer session but you are not allowed to change any parameters [...]
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Swissross
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Tue May 18, 2021 7:34 pm

Wickid, Thanks for the clarification. I thought selecting the different classifications just grouped things wheres "all", just showed all the gliders. Appreciate the info.

Bre901. LOL. I love people that post completely unhelpful RTFM nonsense. Enjoy yourself..

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Bre901
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Bre901 » Tue May 18, 2021 8:22 pm

Swissross wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:34 pm
Bre901. LOL. I love people that post completely unhelpful RTFM nonsense. Enjoy yourself..
You may call that completely unhelpful nonsense, but had you left all the parameters unchanged, you would have been able to validate the task on your first attempt :roll: :roll:
I'll remember that next time you request support
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Swissross
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Tue May 18, 2021 9:13 pm

Thanks. And since you didn't provide any support, I'd appreciate not getting a reply from you!

Have a wonderful day !!!

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wickid
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by wickid » Tue May 18, 2021 10:48 pm

To be fair, he pointed you to the "rulebook". I mearly explained why that rule is there in the rulebook. I think Bre901 made a helpful post so you know where you can read what you need to do to get your badge verified correctly. Which I think was part of the initial question posted by you.
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Tue May 18, 2021 11:50 pm

wickid wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:48 pm
To be fair, he pointed you to the "rulebook". I mearly explained why that rule is there in the rulebook. I think Bre901 made a helpful post so you know where you can read what you need to do to get your badge verified correctly. Which I think was part of the initial question posted by you.
I had it printed out sitting next to me before the flight.

Plane selection by "class" and "all" to me is a bit misleading if there is a difference in the "parameters" of the same glider depending on how I view it in the list. It's like looking at an auto dealers inventory online and sorting by "all" or "Truck", "Sports Car", "Van". Etc. Same cars, just sorted differently.

My original point still stands. The only difference between the two choices is the option to add a water load, which by default there is no water loaded so there is no difference between the "two" gliders unless you change the parameters by adding water. Instead of looking at what class the same glider was loaded from, it seems more logical to check to see if there are any actual parameters (water load) changed. That's all I was saying.

Your reply cleared that up. I'm assuming the automatic verification system can not check for water load so it goes by the classification. Easy enough. I can understand that.

Now tell me, does his reply "Maybe you should have taken a look at the rules at the top of that page" help to clarify the point that you made? No it doesn't. It's unhelpful and condescending.

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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Bre901 » Wed May 19, 2021 10:03 am

Swissross wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 11:50 pm
I'm assuming the automatic verification system can not check for water load so it goes by the classification. Easy enough. I can understand that.
Actually it can, but the class (explicitly specified in the task description) is one of the many parameters that are checked by the Condor-Club automatic verification system.

Class.jpg

For silver, gold and diamond badges the flight plan must be used "as is".
The only parameters that may be changed are Plane type, Skin, and C/G bias (and Water load and Fixed ballast, if allowed by the class).

The same rule applies to on-line flights, in which case the Condor flight planner locks all the parameters, except the ones listed above.
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Wed May 26, 2021 12:14 am

"Club Class, allows a wide range of older small gliders within a specified range of performances, e.g. Libelle, Standard Cirrus, LS1, with the scores being adjusted by handicapping. Disposable (i.e. water) ballast may be installed but must not be used in this class."


ITS THE EXACT SAME GLIDER, IT'S JUST NOT ALLOWED TO FILL THE WATER BALLAST!

Sorry, we can agree to disagree here, we just have a completely different idea of what "parameter" means. When you can select EXACTLY the same glider from two different lists, but call each "list" a "parameter" you've lost me. Now you add weight, change the CG etc.. Those are parameters to me.

Let me ask you this. If in RL you were hosting an event with "club class" gliders that included those listed and someone showed up with an ASW 20 that had a ballast installed, would he be allowed to participate? I'm sure you'd make sure that he wasn't carrying any water, right?

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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by 6266 » Wed May 26, 2021 6:42 am

If you take the ASW 20 in club in RL you are not allowed to take water. In Condor it's the same. If you take the ASW 20 and choose to fly it in club class, you can't use water. So Condor makes sure that you follow the rules for club class and that you can't take water. Maybe there will be other rules to follow in a class. Why should CC check on an import if you used all rules of the expected class? It's much easier - and for me the only efficient way - to check if you choosed the correct class, because then you have automatically followed all the rules.

There are other classes with other rules. Take the Ventus 3-18. In 18m class you can take 155 liter water, in All and Open class you can take 186 liter water. Do you really expect that with each new plane the import rules in CC will be changed?

The class you choose for a task is not only a category to find a plane, it's a set of rules Condor will follow for the task. And in the task definition the class is a parameter, like the wind direction, or the minimum height at the finish or many other things. So it's correct, that CC says, that one parameter in the task is wrong.
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wickid
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by wickid » Wed May 26, 2021 5:50 pm

There are also differences in handicap. For example: club uses FAI index, All used Daec index and Open uses no index on condor club. So it is not only waterballast.

Just read and follow the rules. Link to them you can find above.
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Swissross
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by Swissross » Wed May 26, 2021 8:03 pm

I'm really enjoying this thread, all the different explanations, the pointing to this and that...

It's the exactly same glider.

Lets keep this going!

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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by EDB » Wed May 26, 2021 9:07 pm

You changed the Plane Class so you didn't comply to the rules...

How difficult is this? English is not my native language, but I understand what they are trying to say.

Plane Class Club has FAI IGC Rules. FAI IGC Handicap. Water is not allowed, so blocked in glider setup.
All Class has DAeC Handicap. Waterballast is allowed. This is different...

You can fly a Libelle in Open Class if you want (no handicap, waterballast allowed)... But if the rules say you have to fly under Club Class rules, you need to select Club Class.

So if someone helps you by directing you to were the rules are ...then he is helping you.

Maybe ask your mother to help you too...

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6266
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Re: Gold badge verification logic issue

Post by 6266 » Wed May 26, 2021 9:47 pm

You don't see or will see the point. I like examples:

You can play fotball, or handball. You are exactly the same guy, in one game you can use your hand, in the other not. Try it in RL.

I'm out of this thread now
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