New FAI handicaps

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wickid
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New FAI handicaps

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:23 pm

https://www.fai.org/sites/default/files/sc3ah_2021.pdf

New FAI clubclass handicap list.

Only change relevant to Condor is that the ASW20B/C has been added with handicap 106.0 (Condor club has 105.5 atm).
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TimKuijpers
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by TimKuijpers » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:58 pm

Not really. All depends on the actual weight vs reference weight.
For the ASW20 it would mean a reduction of 0.09 (340kg vs 372 > 30kg light) so index should be 1.051

But here is a funfact: The cirrus flies at 290kg (good luck with that in reallife) while the reference weight is 345kg => index 0.985
In case you wondered why the cirrus was never really competitive in condor(club)..

Ls4 = 320 vs 356 => index 1.016
Libelle = 285 vs 328 => index 0.978
ASW19 = 325 vs 362 => index 0.991
DG101 = 315 vs 385 => 0.979 (something wrong here with the empty weight in condor maybe?)
Pegase = 331 vs 361 => 1.006


Not sure what that would do to the pilot's choice. To be honoust, using handicap is a wonderfull option when you are limited on money and still want to compete. However, with condor we can all fly the same gliders, eliminating this whole handicap issue.. Also it is clearly visible that the old gliders gained quite some weight compared to their original advertised weights (assuming condor uses those). More instruments, more batteries (many pilots weighing more than 80kg when wearing a parachute :lol: ) and then the overhaul usually puts on a few kgs as well. What is interesting aswell is that in condor we tend to always fly in strong conditions, so that favours high wingloading by default. Then on top of that, when the weak day comes we magicly are able to switch gliders during a competition! :wink:


ps. I only own the ASW20 and Cirrus, so the other calculations were made based on the empty weight in condor + 80kg

edit: in fact the handicap decrease is in fact capped at a maximum reduction of 0.006 so indices are different
ASW19: 0.994 ASW20: 1.054 Cirrus: 0.994 DG101: 0.994 Libelle: 0.984 ls4: 1.019 Pegase 1.009
Last edited by TimKuijpers on Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul_UK
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by Paul_UK » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:15 pm

VSC host quite a few weaker, UK weather style tasks. We ran a 100k series which were club class or Cirrus only races. Even with really weak conditions an ASW19 seemed to in general be the glider of choice. I flew the Libelle in every race possible but regardless of conditions I could never keep up with those 19s! The 20 didn't fair so well in these tasks.
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:34 pm

Tim, you are absolutely right. Didn't think of that :oops:

I do have all the planes:

ASW19:

29.5 kg/m2 = 324.5 kg
Handicap: 0.994

ASW20:

32.4 kg/m2 = 340.2 kg
Handicap: 1.054

DG101:

28.6 kg/m2 = 314.6 kg
Handicap: 0.994

Libelle:

29.1 kg/m2 = 285.2 kg
Handicap: 0.986

LS4a:

30.5 kg/m2 = 320.3 kg
Handicap: 1.019

Pegase:

31.4 kg/m2 = 329.7 kg
Handicap: 1.009

Cirrus:

28.9 kg/m2 = 290.2 kg
Handicap: 0.994
TimKuijpers wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:58 pm
DG101 = 315 vs 385 => 0.979 (something wrong here with the empty weight in condor maybe?)
Empty weight is listed as 230 kg. Condor empty weight is 234 kg
Last edited by wickid on Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TimKuijpers
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by TimKuijpers » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:55 pm

I've edited my original post as I forgot that there was a limit on handicap reduction. I wasn't aware of this, and not sure if this has always been there but not many pilots will ever come close to being 20kg under the reference weight if they'd wanted.
In reality this would mean that pilots that are more that 20kg underweight, would put some havier batteries, O2-systems, lead-ballast in order to not lose points..
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by arneh » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:27 pm

Would probably make most sense for Condor to change the take off weight of the club class gliders to match the IGC reference weight.
Should make the handicaps more suitable, and also avoid questions about why handicaps don't match the IGC ones.

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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by wickid » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:03 pm

arneh wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:27 pm
Would probably make most sense for Condor to change the take off weight of the club class gliders to match the IGC reference weight.
Should make the handicaps more suitable, and also avoid questions about why handicaps don't match the IGC ones.
There may be reasons for people to want to fly the gliders at their advertised weight. If they get changed to the reference weight they may not be able to fly at the same WL they fly in real life.
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Paul_UK
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:18 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:03 pm
arneh wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:27 pm
Would probably make most sense for Condor to change the take off weight of the club class gliders to match the IGC reference weight.
Should make the handicaps more suitable, and also avoid questions about why handicaps don't match the IGC ones.
There may be reasons for people to want to fly the gliders at their advertised weight. If they get changed to the reference weight they may not be able to fly at the same WL they fly in real life.
I think this could be solvable. When Club Class is chosen then gliders should be picked and set at their reference weight. If ALL class is chosen then all gliders are at their advertised weight. A bit like how the water ballast system works now. When racing in Club Class surely all pilots would be aiming to get their glider's up to reference weight to gain as much advantage as possible? Bar weak soaring days when being slightly lighter may help?
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Pit_R
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Re: New FAI handicaps

Post by Pit_R » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:22 pm

arneh wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:27 pm
Would probably make most sense for Condor to change the take off weight of the club class gliders to match the IGC reference weight.
Should make the handicaps more suitable, and also avoid questions about why handicaps don't match the IGC ones.

Would be great to have (for all classes, not club only) maximum allowed wingload set by tasksetter.
Hope it is possible.
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