Only ASW20 for Club Class?

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Jannes
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Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by Jannes » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:54 pm

Hey there,

yesterday I have flown my first Club Class competition in Condor. I was wondering what plane would be a good choice. Since I haven't bought any Club Gliders yet, i went for the Cirrus. Pretty bad choice in my opinion.

It seemed to me, that no glider could really compete with the ASW20. And of course I take indexes into count.
If you look at recent results from other competitions (World Cup for example), there are only ASW20s in the top 10, sometimes even top 20.

Why is this plane so overpowered? Of course you have to take weather conditions and pilot skill into the euqation. But still, the overall trend shows, that there is no reason to fly any other plane except the ASW20.


What are your thoughts on this? Have you had another experience?


Thanks
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alexlee
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by alexlee » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:09 pm

This is because when you set up a certain planeclass even if you have no regatta, there will be no index. That means you have the best chances when you get yourelf the best perfoming glider in your type pf class. When the planeclass is set to ALL you will have the Index included in the scoring.

right now in my opinion these are the best choices:

Club: asw20

Standard: Discus 2 and LS8

18m: JS3 and Ventus

15m: JS3

Open: EB29


- Alexander (Organisator of Marburg Open 2021)

Jannes
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by Jannes » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 pm

Thanks for your reply!

But I do not mean the realtime scoring. I was talking about the Index-weighted results in the scoreboard of Condor Club. So even there the ASW20 is clearly superior.


Originally I wanted to fly LS4 since that was my choice for real life Club Class. But I'm worried about always having a small but noticable disadvantage...
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wickid
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by wickid » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:49 pm

Condor itself uses DAeC index. That means the ASW20 has 110, the LS4 104 and the cirrus 99. Then they are quite evenly matched, although the LS4 and the ASW20 have a slight advantage.

On Condor club the FAI index is used. Which is 105.5 for the ASW20, 102.5 for the LS4 and 100 for the Cirrus. This means the ASW20 is far superiour to the other gliders.

In real life you see the same. ASW20's and the slightly more affordable LS3 have shot up in price sinds they are allowed in clubclass and have the most favorable handicap. The cirrus which was a very popular plane previously have dropped in price as they were all dumped on the market.
PH-1504, KOE
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Jannes
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by Jannes » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:05 pm

Thanks.

Now it seems clear to me. In real life I didn't notice the spike in usage of ASW20 yet. Maybe because I fly on national level and mostly other classes.

I guess I just have to buy an ASW20 then. Since there is like always mid-strong weather in Condor Races, the slower planes can't play out their index advantage.

Still a bit sad, but Club Class has to progress in terms of performance as well.


Thank you !
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6266
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by 6266 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:54 am

Maybe it's not the plane, only the way to decide for a plane? If nearly everybody uses the highest indexed plane of a class expecting an advantage, then this plane of course will be on top of the result lists. On task 3 in CWC the first 19 are ASW20, on 20 comes the first LS4.

On Flat_Land_Club I can't see this dominance of the ASW20, maybe those who fly there are more focussed on having fun than on a good result, because that is not such a competition. Here the list of the 30 fastest flights in 2021
flc.jpg
Last year the first one was Std Cirrus, then Libelle and LS4
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wickid
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by wickid » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:44 am

ASW20 advantage is at the high end due to it's flaps. When the thermals are weaker the LS4 becomes quite competitive. When the tasks are slower ASW20's handicap works against it when you make small mistakes.
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6266
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by 6266 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:02 am

So I have to make slow tasks for to keep it out ;-)

Don't like flaps in club, 40 years ago I didn't liked plast in club, time goes on ...

arneh
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by arneh » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:07 am

6266 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:54 am
On Flat_Land_Club I can't see this dominance of the ASW20, maybe those who fly there are more focussed on having fun than on a good result, because that is not such a competition. Here the list of the 30 fastest flights in 2021
flc.jpg
Flat Land Cup seems to use the DAEC handicaps, and not the IGC handicaps that CWC uses. I expect that might explain the difference.

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Paul_UK
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by Paul_UK » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:53 am

DAEC handicap makes Club Class more about how a pilot flies than glider choice in Condor in my opinion.

Peter, like your scores at VSC we use results as output by Condor using DAEC handicap.
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BobF
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by BobF » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:15 am

How to tell if handicap applies on say club, 18/15m tasks?
Thx for your help bob

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wickid
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by wickid » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:24 am

Handicapped classes are:

- school
- club
- 20 meter MS
- All

No index is used in:

- standard
- 15 meter
- 18 meter
- open
- acro
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congo
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?

Post by congo » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:07 am

Yet another valid argument for a switch to allow task setters the choice of individual
gliders to allow in the task, ie, cirrus vs libelle etc.

Another example, we wanted to fly club class "wet" the other night, so "ALL" has to
be set in the flight plan.....
Of course, some people think they are special and flew out of club class, so, we have
to be rude and kick them out of the server.
It would be so much nicer to have control of the plane set for the task planner.
It would also allow odd mixed class races to be created, for example, all two seat sailplanes,
or fly the DG1000S with club class, or a one design race or anything at all that makes us happy.
(Yes, HAPPY, that thing where your customers are having fun instead of being pissed off)

I don't understand the restriction as it is now. So many addon planes are under-utilised as a result.
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