Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Moderator: BOD1
Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Hey there,
yesterday I have flown my first Club Class competition in Condor. I was wondering what plane would be a good choice. Since I haven't bought any Club Gliders yet, i went for the Cirrus. Pretty bad choice in my opinion.
It seemed to me, that no glider could really compete with the ASW20. And of course I take indexes into count.
If you look at recent results from other competitions (World Cup for example), there are only ASW20s in the top 10, sometimes even top 20.
Why is this plane so overpowered? Of course you have to take weather conditions and pilot skill into the euqation. But still, the overall trend shows, that there is no reason to fly any other plane except the ASW20.
What are your thoughts on this? Have you had another experience?
Thanks
yesterday I have flown my first Club Class competition in Condor. I was wondering what plane would be a good choice. Since I haven't bought any Club Gliders yet, i went for the Cirrus. Pretty bad choice in my opinion.
It seemed to me, that no glider could really compete with the ASW20. And of course I take indexes into count.
If you look at recent results from other competitions (World Cup for example), there are only ASW20s in the top 10, sometimes even top 20.
Why is this plane so overpowered? Of course you have to take weather conditions and pilot skill into the euqation. But still, the overall trend shows, that there is no reason to fly any other plane except the ASW20.
What are your thoughts on this? Have you had another experience?
Thanks
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
This is because when you set up a certain planeclass even if you have no regatta, there will be no index. That means you have the best chances when you get yourelf the best perfoming glider in your type pf class. When the planeclass is set to ALL you will have the Index included in the scoring.
right now in my opinion these are the best choices:
Club: asw20
Standard: Discus 2 and LS8
18m: JS3 and Ventus
15m: JS3
Open: EB29
- Alexander (Organisator of Marburg Open 2021)
right now in my opinion these are the best choices:
Club: asw20
Standard: Discus 2 and LS8
18m: JS3 and Ventus
15m: JS3
Open: EB29
- Alexander (Organisator of Marburg Open 2021)
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Thanks for your reply!
But I do not mean the realtime scoring. I was talking about the Index-weighted results in the scoreboard of Condor Club. So even there the ASW20 is clearly superior.
Originally I wanted to fly LS4 since that was my choice for real life Club Class. But I'm worried about always having a small but noticable disadvantage...
But I do not mean the realtime scoring. I was talking about the Index-weighted results in the scoreboard of Condor Club. So even there the ASW20 is clearly superior.
Originally I wanted to fly LS4 since that was my choice for real life Club Class. But I'm worried about always having a small but noticable disadvantage...
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Condor itself uses DAeC index. That means the ASW20 has 110, the LS4 104 and the cirrus 99. Then they are quite evenly matched, although the LS4 and the ASW20 have a slight advantage.
On Condor club the FAI index is used. Which is 105.5 for the ASW20, 102.5 for the LS4 and 100 for the Cirrus. This means the ASW20 is far superiour to the other gliders.
In real life you see the same. ASW20's and the slightly more affordable LS3 have shot up in price sinds they are allowed in clubclass and have the most favorable handicap. The cirrus which was a very popular plane previously have dropped in price as they were all dumped on the market.
On Condor club the FAI index is used. Which is 105.5 for the ASW20, 102.5 for the LS4 and 100 for the Cirrus. This means the ASW20 is far superiour to the other gliders.
In real life you see the same. ASW20's and the slightly more affordable LS3 have shot up in price sinds they are allowed in clubclass and have the most favorable handicap. The cirrus which was a very popular plane previously have dropped in price as they were all dumped on the market.
PH-1504, KOE
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Thanks.
Now it seems clear to me. In real life I didn't notice the spike in usage of ASW20 yet. Maybe because I fly on national level and mostly other classes.
I guess I just have to buy an ASW20 then. Since there is like always mid-strong weather in Condor Races, the slower planes can't play out their index advantage.
Still a bit sad, but Club Class has to progress in terms of performance as well.
Thank you !
Now it seems clear to me. In real life I didn't notice the spike in usage of ASW20 yet. Maybe because I fly on national level and mostly other classes.
I guess I just have to buy an ASW20 then. Since there is like always mid-strong weather in Condor Races, the slower planes can't play out their index advantage.
Still a bit sad, but Club Class has to progress in terms of performance as well.
Thank you !
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Maybe it's not the plane, only the way to decide for a plane? If nearly everybody uses the highest indexed plane of a class expecting an advantage, then this plane of course will be on top of the result lists. On task 3 in CWC the first 19 are ASW20, on 20 comes the first LS4.
On Flat_Land_Club I can't see this dominance of the ASW20, maybe those who fly there are more focussed on having fun than on a good result, because that is not such a competition. Here the list of the 30 fastest flights in 2021 Last year the first one was Std Cirrus, then Libelle and LS4
On Flat_Land_Club I can't see this dominance of the ASW20, maybe those who fly there are more focussed on having fun than on a good result, because that is not such a competition. Here the list of the 30 fastest flights in 2021 Last year the first one was Std Cirrus, then Libelle and LS4
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
ASW20 advantage is at the high end due to it's flaps. When the thermals are weaker the LS4 becomes quite competitive. When the tasks are slower ASW20's handicap works against it when you make small mistakes.
PH-1504, KOE
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
So I have to make slow tasks for to keep it out
Don't like flaps in club, 40 years ago I didn't liked plast in club, time goes on ...
Don't like flaps in club, 40 years ago I didn't liked plast in club, time goes on ...
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Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Flat Land Cup seems to use the DAEC handicaps, and not the IGC handicaps that CWC uses. I expect that might explain the difference.
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
DAEC handicap makes Club Class more about how a pilot flies than glider choice in Condor in my opinion.
Peter, like your scores at VSC we use results as output by Condor using DAEC handicap.
Peter, like your scores at VSC we use results as output by Condor using DAEC handicap.
2018 - Silver Badge complete - Forgot I could claim for the 100km diploma flying an out and return
2019 - Get up to speed and aim for a 300km task?! maybe.....
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
How to tell if handicap applies on say club, 18/15m tasks?
Thx for your help bob
Thx for your help bob
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Handicapped classes are:
- school
- club
- 20 meter MS
- All
No index is used in:
- standard
- 15 meter
- 18 meter
- open
- acro
- school
- club
- 20 meter MS
- All
No index is used in:
- standard
- 15 meter
- 18 meter
- open
- acro
PH-1504, KOE
Re: Only ASW20 for Club Class?
Yet another valid argument for a switch to allow task setters the choice of individual
gliders to allow in the task, ie, cirrus vs libelle etc.
Another example, we wanted to fly club class "wet" the other night, so "ALL" has to
be set in the flight plan.....
Of course, some people think they are special and flew out of club class, so, we have
to be rude and kick them out of the server.
It would be so much nicer to have control of the plane set for the task planner.
It would also allow odd mixed class races to be created, for example, all two seat sailplanes,
or fly the DG1000S with club class, or a one design race or anything at all that makes us happy.
(Yes, HAPPY, that thing where your customers are having fun instead of being pissed off)
I don't understand the restriction as it is now. So many addon planes are under-utilised as a result.
gliders to allow in the task, ie, cirrus vs libelle etc.
Another example, we wanted to fly club class "wet" the other night, so "ALL" has to
be set in the flight plan.....
Of course, some people think they are special and flew out of club class, so, we have
to be rude and kick them out of the server.
It would be so much nicer to have control of the plane set for the task planner.
It would also allow odd mixed class races to be created, for example, all two seat sailplanes,
or fly the DG1000S with club class, or a one design race or anything at all that makes us happy.
(Yes, HAPPY, that thing where your customers are having fun instead of being pissed off)
I don't understand the restriction as it is now. So many addon planes are under-utilised as a result.