Exporting Tasks to LK8000

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JBlyth
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Mon May 18, 2020 1:58 pm

Understood - and sorry about the typo. I shall blame my wife for calling me to dinner and me not checking my message adequately ;-)

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Mon May 18, 2020 5:18 pm

JBlyth wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:58 pm
Understood - and sorry about the typo. I shall blame my wife for calling me to dinner and me not checking my message adequately ;-)
Nurries, mate :wink:
CN : MPT

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:03 pm

Beta4 is available : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JMPUu ... qwspofBq_N

270° sector problems fixed
Window-type WPs taken into account
Same name for all output 3 files
Post-run script

Same as before, run once to update the .ini file.

Thanks again for your help
CN : MPT

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Tue May 19, 2020 7:20 am

The manual first draft is available (EN & FR) : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JE0h5 ... wu9jhJYVrQ

Some proofreading would be greatly appreciated
CN : MPT

JBlyth
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Tue May 19, 2020 8:11 am

Hi Bre901,

I have had a read of the English version of the manual, and I have only have one small suggestion to make:-
Page 5, LK8000, Second paragraph. Last word...
"If in the .ini file, Destination Path corresponds to a filename (including the path and ending in .lkt), this
filename will always be used to write the circuit."

Should "circuit" be task?

Sorry I can't help with the French version. My very Irish French teacher at High School (many many years ago) said, "Blyth, you do not have the brain for the French Language". In this one thing he might have been correct!

By the way, the idea to enable a script to run at the end is brilliant (great idea ybuqc). I had all sorts of complicated ways on my Android phone to copy the LK8000 PC beta files across to the Android beta on my phone. In the PC beta version, the file structure is totally normal, but in the Android version there is an additional \Dropbox\LK8000\_Configuration_beta folder.

So I made a little script to copy the new DEFAULT*.* files to a new _Configuration_beta folder I made in LK8000's directory tree, and then used the Android app "Folder Sync Pro" to copy the required files from my LK8000 DropBox installation to the Android phone. The script is triggered from the CoTaCo.ini file and works brilliantly!

Cheers
John in Sunny Carnarvon - western Australia

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:36 am

JBlyth wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:11 am
Hi Bre901,

I have had a read of the English version of the manual
Thanks ! Image
, and I have only have one small suggestion to make:-
Page 5, LK8000, Second paragraph. Last word...
"If in the .ini file, Destination Path corresponds to a filename (including the path and ending in .lkt), this
filename will always be used to write the circuit."

Should "circuit" be task?
Yes indeed, it's a leftover from the automated translation from French by http://Deepl.com (much better that Google translate BTW)
CN : MPT

JBlyth
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Tue May 19, 2020 4:35 pm

Hi Bre901,

I used CoTaCo today for the New Zealand Gliding Grand Prix Race. Everything worked very efficiently and painlessly.

The nominated maximum start height for the Task was 5577 feet, but the CoTaCo translation into LK8000 shows it as 4318ft. Is this an error in the flight plan, a miscalculation, or a misunderstanding on my part. Tick whichever applies. :-)

It looks to me as if the start point elevation 1260 + 4318 = gives the correct max start height of 5577 - give or take a foot, but I am not sure which entry in the .fpl gives the start maximum height as nothing seems to fit....

I have attached the LK8000 .lkt and Condor 2 .ftp in a zipped file for you. Here is the link to the Task itself:-
https://www.condor-club.eu/comp/showtask/0/?id=14924

Cheers
John in Sunny Carnarvon - Western Australia
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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:03 pm

As far as I understand LK8000 (I don't know what to think of folks who code some altitudes in metres, some others in millimetres in the same data file :roll: ) the start and finish heights are AGL , whereas in Condor they are MSL.

I tried to set height-ref="MSL" in the .lkt file, but to no avail, so I gave up trying to be smart ...
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Wed May 20, 2020 4:41 am

Hi Bre901,

Do we have a possible maths error or, more likely an incorrect use of the Flight Plan Protocol here? I have been trying to find a more definitive description of how to use the Maximum and Minimum heights when setting a start line, as I think perhaps the organiser for yesterday's task made some errors in the task setup. The Minimum Height is most certainly wrong....

So perhaps you can ignore what I have written below, but I'll leave it there as an explanation for possibly why this particular task did not calculate correctly....

Unfortunately, the Task from Gliding NZ is no longer online, but from memory:-
Start elevation = 1260 feet = 384m (correct in .fpl)
Minimum Start Height = 2297 feet = 700m (INCORRECT in .ftp it had 1200m)
Maximum Start Height above the MINIMUM Start Height = 3281feet = 1000m (CORRECT in .ftp but possibly used in the wrong way)

So perhaps the correct computation in this particular case is Minimum Start Height +Maximum Start Height (2297+3280=5577ft = 1700m)

I guess if there is no minimum start height, the Maximum would be Start Elevation + Maximum Elevation.

From the CORRECTED .fpl
TPPosZ1=384 - Start elevation
TPAltitude1=700 - Minimum Start Height
TPHeight1=1000 - Maximum Start Height

TPAltitude1+TPHeight1=700m+1000m=1700m or 5577 feet!

I will buy you a beer if I have got it all wrong!

Cheers
John in Sunny Carnarvon - Western Australia

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Wed May 20, 2020 7:59 am

Before I answer, could you please indicate if the start line type was a regular waypoint or a window ? (according to the type, the data are written differently in the .fpl file)

Whatever the type, minimum start and maximum finish altitudes are not considered when writing the <rules> section in the .lkt file
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Wed May 20, 2020 9:20 am

I'm not to sure of the difference, Bre901, so I have attached yesterdays New Zealand .lkt and .fpl (with the ?incorrect height for the lower limit.

I also suspect that there may be an error in the lat long conversions as today's start was displaced to the east by a number of kilometres from the actual start line on condor. See images in the attached zip file + Next post - could load up more to this post......

If you would rather, we can communicate directly via email.

Sorry to be such a pain.....
John - please send rain to Sunny Carnarvon!

Displaced start line to the WEST [Edited] - I got the cross hairs as close as I could to the correct position within Condor!
LNS200520 - Displaced Start Line.png

LK8000 Lat and Longs from CoTaCo
LK Start LNS200520.png

Lat Long to Condor data for LNS200520
LatLongConversion.png
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Last edited by JBlyth on Wed May 20, 2020 9:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

JBlyth
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Wed May 20, 2020 9:22 am

Additional Files from previous post...

Cheers
John

Lat Long from Condor for LNS200520
LNS200520 - Image from Condor Lat Long.png
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JBlyth
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by JBlyth » Tue May 26, 2020 6:00 am

Hello Bre901,

For when you have time, I have attached zipped file might help for AAT races. I have included a .fpl from Gliding New Zealand and the .lkt file I edited to suit.

Cheers
John in Sunny Carnarvon - Western Australia
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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Wed May 27, 2020 4:23 pm

JBlyth wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 4:41 am
Do we have a possible maths error or, more likely an incorrect use of the Flight Plan Protocol here? I have been trying to find a more definitive description of how to use the Maximum and Minimum heights when setting a start line, as I think perhaps the organiser for yesterday's task made some errors in the task setup. The Minimum Height is most certainly wrong....

So perhaps you can ignore what I have written below, but I'll leave it there as an explanation for possibly why this particular task did not calculate correctly....

Unfortunately, the Task from Gliding NZ is no longer online, but from memory:-
Start elevation = 1260 feet = 384m (correct in .fpl)
Minimum Start Height = 2297 feet = 700m (INCORRECT in .ftp it had 1200m)
Maximum Start Height above the MINIMUM Start Height = 3281feet = 1000m (CORRECT in .ftp but possibly used in the wrong way)

So perhaps the correct computation in this particular case is Minimum Start Height +Maximum Start Height (2297+3280=5577ft = 1700m)

I guess if there is no minimum start height, the Maximum would be Start Elevation + Maximum Elevation.

From the CORRECTED .fpl
TPPosZ1=384 - Start elevation
TPAltitude1=700 - Minimum Start Height
TPHeight1=1000 - Maximum Start Height

TPAltitude1+TPHeight1=700m+1000m=1700m or 5577 feet!
I'll do all the math in metres (Condor and LK8000 files are metric), feel free to convert whatever value to feet :wink:
The .fpl format is a bit convoluted :

if the waypoint type is "window" (TPSectorTypeN=1)

Code: Select all

GlidingNZ190520.fpl

TPName1=Start
TPPosX1=267286.625
TPPosY1=75693.0078125
TPPosZ1=384
TPAirport1=0
TPSectorType1=1
TPRadius1=3000
TPAngle1=180
TPAltitude1=1200
TPWidth1=3000
TPHeight1=1000
TPAzimuth1=3.92699074745178
then
the window extends vertically from TPAltitudeN-TPHeightN/2 to TPAltitudeN-TPHeightN/2
in the case above, it extends from 1200-1000/2=700 to 1200+1000/2=1700m, which is what you can see in theCondor flightplanner: [7-17]
the ground altitude is 384m, hence the maximum height AGL is 1700-384=1316m, converted to mm it yields 1316000 (4273 ft AGL)

Code: Select all

GlidingNZ190520.lkt
 
 <start max-height="1316000" max-height-margin="0" max-speed="0" max-speed-margin="0" height-ref="AGL" />
else if the waypoint type is "standard" (TPSectorTypeN=0 below)

Code: Select all

LNS200520.fpl

TPName1=PTUJ
TPPosX1=40541.859375
TPPosY1=101355.4296875
TPPosZ1=214
TPAirport1=0
TPSectorType1=0
TPRadius1=3000
TPAngle1=180
TPAltitude1=1500
TPWidth1=0
TPHeight1=2000
TPAzimuth1=0
then
the window extends vertically from TPWidthN to TPHeightN (TPAltitudeN is just ignored) don't ask my why :wink:
in the case above, it extends from 0 to 2000m, which is what you can see in the Condor flightplanner : [0-20]
the ground altitude is 214m, hence the maximum height AGL is 2000-214=1786m, converted to mm it yields 1786000 (5799ft AGL)

Code: Select all

LNS200520.lkt
<start max-height="1786000" max-height-margin="0" max-speed="0" max-speed-margin="0" height-ref="AGL" />
I will buy you a beer if I have got it all wrong!
Cheers !Image
CN : MPT

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Bre901
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Re: Exporting Tasks to LK8000

Post by Bre901 » Wed May 27, 2020 4:57 pm

JBlyth wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:20 am
I also suspect that there may be an error in the lat long conversions as today's start was displaced to the east by a number of kilometres from the actual start line on condor. See images in the attached zip file + Next post - could load up more to this post......
There is an error indeed, but it is in the LK8000 waypoint database :roll: :roll:

Condor flight planner :
Condor.png
.
Google maps:
GM.png
.
LK8000 (the far right "O" is clearly the initial for Ormož)
LNS200520 - Displaced Start Line.jpg
.
In Condor, the airport (and the start line) are located roughly one third between Ptuj town center and Ormož

If you go to Google Maps and look for Ptuj, the airport (Letališče Ptuj) is located where the red arrow is (46°25′7″N 15°59′2″E approx 46.25.12N 15.59.03 in that terrible SeeYou notation) the latitude is a bit off (~850 m : distance from runway center to the local bar ?), but the longitude is the same

In LK8000, the airport is located at ... Ptuj town center (and the runway heading has been turned by something like 90 degrees) but the start line is ... just where it should be !

Case closed M'lud !
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