Force recalculate button

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wickid
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Force recalculate button

Post by wickid » Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:47 am

Thierry, I think we need some kind of way to force a recalculation on Condor club. Seeing the recent CWC discussion and my own experience. At the moment the only way currently available (reopen the upload window) has several drawbacks.

1. It allowes people to fly the task offline, with knowledge of the winning route
2. It again does a comparison between the server results and the uploaded FPLs. This adds back people that were removed from scoring manually. For example I'm trying to remove a competitor from the scoring (he had a bluescreen). But when I reopen the upload he keeps getting added back in and the bad CC-rating is again applied.
3. Adding server results manually if somehow the upload to CC didn't work. Now you need to re-open the window in order for the results to be added.

So I think there is a need for a force re-calculate results button. With the option to crosscheck with the server results and one without (to avoid adding back people that were manually removed from scoring.
PH-1504, KOE

JLN
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by JLN » Mon Feb 26, 2024 4:11 pm

Hello,
I fully agree with you about this subject and a recalculate button should be tested in order to solve it.
But I do not understand your first drawback concerning the reopening of the window to send FTR.
wickid wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:47 am
1. It allowes people to fly the task offline, with knowledge of the winning route
How a pilot flying off line could interfere with the results ? When a sending FTR window is reopened, the race is finished, all time slots are closed, and all servers are closed. As a server result is necessary nobody else than the pilots having participated the race can enter in the results.
Please explain what could be the problem.

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wickid
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by wickid » Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:14 pm

JLN wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 4:11 pm
How a pilot flying off line could interfere with the results ? When a sending FTR window is reopened, the race is finished, all time slots are closed, and all servers are closed. As a server result is necessary nobody else than the pilots having participated the race can enter in the results.
Please explain what could be the problem.
After all the time slots have closed you can download the task and view the results including the winning route. You can even download the winner FTR and just follow him around the task as a ghost. This can easily be done in the 5 hours the upload window is open, there is nothing stopping anybody from flying the task offline. You don't need to enter a server to be scored. You can also download the task and fly offline when your timeslot is open.

Also somebody that initially flew the task online, didn't do well and disconnects before the finish. If he didn't upload he can refly the task offline and upload his better result when the upload window reopens.
PH-1504, KOE

JLN
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by JLN » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:49 am

wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:14 pm
After all the time slots have closed you can download the task and view the results including the winning route. You can even download the winner FTR and just follow him around the task as a ghost. This can easily be done in the 5 hours the upload window is open
For me it is impossible to see the race of a player or downloading his ftr before receiving the mail presenting the results of the race. Before this all results are N/A and the only information is the ranking of the players and a first score indication (which will be slightly changed in the definitive results)
I can see my race on the "pilot ranking list" under my name, but for other pilots the race is not visible.
Also, when a sending ftr window is reopened, a pilot without server information cannot send a FTR.
wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:14 pm
You don't need to enter a server to be scored.
I supposed that there was a checking between the server information (the pilot has to be on a server once to participate to the race :wink: ) and the ftr sent especially on the date and time of the beginning of the race. And probably many other informations.
I know that there can be the red score in the race result meaning : "Red score = FTR and server results mismatch" but I dont know when it occurs and what exactly it means.

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wickid
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by wickid » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:16 pm

I'm not talking about the normal upload window when you get the N/A results. I'm talking about "re-open the upload window". This is AFTER the results have been published. The task is visible, including the results and flight tracks of the winners.

If i'm registered but did not upload (for whatever reason) during my timeslot, I can fly the task offline with the ghost of the winner after the results have been published. If the competition host uses the "re-open the upload window" option I'm then able to upload this FTR file.
PH-1504, KOE

JLN
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by JLN » Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:54 pm

I agree;
That is why I said that I hope that there is a good checking of the date and time of the FTR sent. I hope these parameters are included in the FTR file.
I suppose that the cross checking done checks precisely many parameters enabling the correspondance between the FTR and the server datas and enable to be sure that the flight has been done during the server session.
A first simple check can be done with the creation date of the FTR which is automaticaly created at the end of the flight by condor. Creation of the FTR + flight duration can give an idea of the beginning of the flight.
Well, I know that it is probably possible to change the creation date for a good cheater...
In all cases the FTR sent should agree with the server information if crashed, outland.

Ok clearly for a force recalculate button, but also leave the possibility to a pilot who could not send his ftr for any reason and want to be in the results accordingly to a server especially in case of task finished.

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wickid
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by wickid » Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:19 pm

People can and do fly offline for various reasons. The server crosscheck is only for people who flew on the server but didn't upload. You can avoid a bad rating by only flying offline (during the same time as the server is running) and uploading only when you have a good result. Ofcourse with the drawback of flying alone. But you can always pause and watch the various streams for hints... :roll: . But there may be reasons people fly offline. Think bad computer, data limited internet connections ect. There are also offline competitions on Condor Club. So there is a legimimate reason for people to fly offline.

My point is, we need an option to force a recheck and/or recalculation of the results without opening the upload window. This prevents the associated cheating potential of opening the window I pointed out above.

Also if somebody proves a bluescreen with an errorlog, i would like to be able to remove them from the day result and force a recalculation so their bad rating gets removed. Now this isn't possible as the crosscheck with the server is always done.
PH-1504, KOE

JLN
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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by JLN » Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:22 pm

wickid wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:19 pm
People can and do fly offline for various reasons. The server crosscheck is only for people who flew on the server but didn't upload. You can avoid a bad rating by only flying offline (during the same time as the server is running) and uploading only when you have a good result.
That would mean that there is no server data for this player and that he can upoad a FTR without having been on a server and be in the results ? In all competition in which I was there was always the same pilots in the server lists and in the same results of the servers. If pilots had not uploaded the result was according to the rule.

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Re: Force recalculate button

Post by wickid » Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:18 am

JLN wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:22 pm
wickid wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:19 pm
People can and do fly offline for various reasons. The server crosscheck is only for people who flew on the server but didn't upload. You can avoid a bad rating by only flying offline (during the same time as the server is running) and uploading only when you have a good result.
That would mean that there is no server data for this player and that he can upoad a FTR without having been on a server and be in the results ? In all competition in which I was there was always the same pilots in the server lists and in the same results of the servers. If pilots had not uploaded the result was according to the rule.
Most people fly online, but it is certainly possible to fly offline and not be in any server results while still being scored by uploaden a FTR.
PH-1504, KOE

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