"Glidery" joysticks?

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Tobster
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"Glidery" joysticks?

Post by Tobster » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:22 am

Are there any joysticks on the market that are more realistically suited to gliding than arm-wrestling Satan?

As in:
-Flyable with two fingers, somewhere near the base of the stick.
-Very light springs.
-Sprung trim mechanically integrated with the pitch axis.

The retro arcade style "lollipop stick" format seems to be the nearest tactile thing to what I'm looking for, but lacks said trim.

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Paul_UK
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by Paul_UK » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:27 pm

I like the feel of my X52 pro hotas stick. Feel is going to be a very personal opinion though. I think it has the right balance of lightness but still self centres. Many people mod the stick to make it have a stiffer feel so that in a way backs up my thoughts that it has a light feel to it in the first place.

I do not think it has the trim option you are after however on the throttle quadrant there is a slider (axis). I assign this to trim as this is as close to the trim setup there is in a Discus B which is what I fly at my gliding club in RL.

My only gripe with the X52 is the manufacturing tolerances are quite as tight as I'd like them to be, specifically on the potentiometers or whatever system they use for positional readout. On my brand new X52 pro even after calibration there is an oddity turning to the right in that the calibration readout shows full right movement has been applied just prior to the stick being moved to the full right deflection. This isn't apparent in any other direction. Other than that it does the job for me. Not the cheapest stick out there but also not the most expensive.
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lordauriel
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by lordauriel » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:10 am

if you want something that is ridiculously light in comparison, CH fighterstick.
If you then find that it's too light, as did I, you can mod it with rubber o-rings and truck tyre sticky lead weights to make the base beefier.

The glider I fly IRL are VERY far away from being light on the controls. Astir, ASK21 need force. Also a stick that's too light sacrifices control (not talking about IRL controls) because if there's no resistance and you don't get any feedback on it either, overcontrolling becomes an issue

However, I really do NOT like the resistance the thrustmaster t1600000000000whatever gave me. It's too stiff, and compared with the ball&cup system that's something I couldn't acccept.

i'd say CH fighterstick. Most range of motion of all the products on the market (maybe except the Virpil T50M2 but that's 500 USD+ just for the stick) and very light.

EDIT / PS:

The rubber o-ring mod takes like 5 minutes, and I think the reason I like it so much is because it hardly adds any additional resistance around the stick center, but adds progressively more resistance the closer you move the stick towards the limits, which I find plenty realistic. Gives me a LOT of feedback, as much as I could expect without having actual Force Feedback (which will never come back, IMHO)

ebkollgaard
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by ebkollgaard » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:49 am

I like my CH Flightstick pro very much and it has a light touch so you can just use two finger when keeping on a course. I actually prefer it to a Logitech force feedback stick I also have. I once had a demo flight in a Grob 103 Twin Astir (I'm regrettably not a RL pilot.) , and the pilot let me fly for a period. The actual joystick on that sailplane felt very similar to the CH joystick I use with Condor 2.
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sidewinder
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by sidewinder » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:35 am

I have been using a Saitek Cyborg EVO for more than 10 years now and I love the feel. The FF can be adjusted so that it's not overbearing.

Note sure if you can still buy them though.

MrHerisson
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by MrHerisson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:17 am

Saitek X56 comes in with 4 different springs.
and has enough buttons to be able to fly without ever touching the keyboard.
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Fabry
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by Fabry » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:38 pm

Find a used microsoft sidewinder force feedback 2 than you can set the FF as light or as hard as you like, there isn't an my opinion a better Joystick than SWFFB2 to bad is not in production anymore.
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2P
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by 2P » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:28 pm

Hi, guys

I can recommend the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 joystick. They should still be available on ebay. The best feeling in my opinion. I also flew many years with a CH Flightstick. Also very good, but without force feedback...
I'm not sure, but I think that the "Stick Force Simulation" in the Condor Input menu does not influence the force on a Force Feedback Stick. It is just the "simulation" of the slower (higher rudder force) movement of the pilot's arms at higher speed. I can't feel any difference at higher speed on my FFB2 stick. Maybe because I made a stick extension with a different grip and doubled the current with additional SMD resistors. I thought, because of the stick extension I had to increase the current and boost the motors.
Link to the modding project that inspired me: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152723
But now at higher speeds it sometimes feels a little too strong. An external program like "fs-force" for FSX to adjust the force feedback would be nice :wink:
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Patrick Portmann 2P

CircusOz
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by CircusOz » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:54 am

I've just this week acquired a force feedback as recommended , but so far , it hasn't made a dramatic difference . Ive yet to experiment with settings . It does make a big difference with stall warning at low speed and at flutter speeds. But there seems to be no subtle changes when entering thermals or anything else that might help with sensory input.

I'd be quite happy to keep using my CH Combatstick if that was the only option.

MrHerisson
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by MrHerisson » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:04 am

2P wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:28 pm
Hi, guys

I can recommend the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 joystick. They should still be available on ebay. The best feeling in my opinion. I also flew many years with a CH Flightstick. Also very good, but without force feedback...
I'm not sure, but I think that the "Stick Force Simulation" in the Condor Input menu does not influence the force on a Force Feedback Stick. It is just the "simulation" of the slower (higher rudder force) movement of the pilot's arms at higher speed. I can't feel any difference at higher speed on my FFB2 stick. Maybe because I made a stick extension with a different grip and doubled the current with additional SMD resistors. I thought, because of the stick extension I had to increase the current and boost the motors.
Link to the modding project that inspired me: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152723
But now at higher speeds it sometimes feels a little too strong. An external program like "fs-force" for FSX to adjust the force feedback would be nice :wink:
This setup looks awsome...any pic of the whole thing?
Image

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2P
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by 2P » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:19 pm

This setup looks awsome...any pic of the whole thing?
Thank you :D

Sure, I will publish some photos here. But now we're getting offtopic. So maybe we should switch to the "Cockipt Builder" section? If necessary, an Admid can change this. My cockpit is still in WIP status. There is not much time left since I recently became a father.
One day I saw a wooden lounge chair in an online shop and thought it looked like a glider seat. Since I had already started with the joystick extension, I couldn't resist. But maybe next time I should ask my girlfriend first, because she was not happy about this big chair :twisted: :mrgreen: . It is not that difficult to build. You just need a few little DIY skills... I had no idea how to program the buttons for the control stick and the potentiometer for the rudder pedals. My solution was the "BU0836A 12-bit joystick controller" by Leobodnar http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php ... 3f33b01792. It is simply "plug and play" and easy to use. It fits perfectly into the FFB2 joystick socket, and all buttons and the potentiometer are wired to this board. Now I have to improve the pedals (position and bearing too weak) and I am looking for a nice seat cushion.
The black lever with the round head in front of the joystick is connected by a cable to the throttle lever of the FFB2 joystick and controls the throttle on the motorgliders. The TWCS throttle from Thrustmaster controls the spoilers. With the many buttons and the trim wheel I practically don't need the keyboard anymore when flying.
If you have any questions, just let me know and I will try to answer them.
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Patrick Portmann 2P

MrHerisson
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by MrHerisson » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:00 am

Great work!!

I totally need to find a seat so I can start thinkin about rudders....
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mhs
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by mhs » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:28 pm

I could not find anything suitable so I build my own joystick/rudder, it is all a bit prototype
at the moment but I'm having too much fun flying at the moment. It will be improved
soon/sometime with a rewire, some weight on the bottom of the stick so simulate inertia
and a motor to adjust the spring tension depending on airspeed and proper trim, throttle
and better release and flap control. Later possibly full force feedback.
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JeffSmith
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by JeffSmith » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:57 am

I used to fly with a Logitech joystick but I literally worn it out. I've bought a Thrustmaster T16000M FCS joystick replacement, which is digital and doesn't break the bank. It centers perfectly every time and allows you to make millimeter movements because it has 14-bit resolution 16000 x 16000 data positions. The sensors are the Hall Effect type and not resistance pots so there is no physical contacts which can become dirty or wear out. One can execute really smooth turns with this joystick and when there is sufficient altitude you can go and make a cup of coffee whilst the glider remains on a straight course. I'm very pleased with this joystick - can you tell?

benkog
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Re: "Glidery" joysticks?

Post by benkog » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:43 pm

Hello All!

I now use an older Saitek X52 set (joy+throttle). I bought maybe 8 yrs ago but it works fine.
But now (after googling a lot) I'll change to Thrustmaster T16000m. (I plan to make a longer arm to the new joy to build into my sim rig but I won't dissasembly the Saitek... ) I've tried the Thrustmaster in Condor 2, it was very smooth!

BenkoG
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