E-glide FES mini competition

[Vertigo]

I got kicked out of my own server, but I heard, and saw your form .
As much as I believe you, I think a stiff penalty is unavoidable. I hereby sentence you to making a task for one of the next flights!

[JLN]

Sorry for the lack of photo but I had not the mirror rendering in Vr and snap shot did not work.
An I forgot that the pda did not register the tp after launching the engine and I came back to tp 2 ...

[arneh]

As much as I believe you, I think a stiff penalty is unavoidable. I hereby sentence you to making a task for one of the next flights!

Haha, stiff penatly indeed, but I just got to take the penalty for my stupidity

[Vertigo]

Sorry for the lack of photo but I had not the mirror rendering in Vr and snap shot did not work.

Actually thats one thing I worried about and forgot to ask. Since I dont use VR, im not sure if or how screenshotting works when using VR? What happens when you press S?

[wickid]

Sorry for the lack of photo but I had not the mirror rendering in Vr and snap shot did not work.

Actually thats one thing I worried about and forgot to ask. Since I dont use VR, im not sure if or how screenshotting works when using VR? What happens when you press S?

Screenshot is always from the physical monitor. Not the view in VR. If mirror rendering is off the monitor will show the first frame when entering the game. This will be static. If you take a screenshot it will be this static frame.

If you want a screenshot, you have to take the headset off. Condor in that case continues on the flat screen and you can take a screenshot. When you put the headset back on the on screen image freezes again and Condor will continue in the headset.

[Vertigo]

If it work like that for all VR sets, then making a screenshot should not be a problem (you can even land first)? JLN, did you forget, or does that not work for you? It doesnt matter in this case, as you are nearly 30 min ahead of the next one, so even without battery capacity bonus time, it wouldnt affect your score.

As for the PDA; yeah that is annoying. I use xcsoar, and I still often forget to look at it instead of my condor pda, and thats not so easy to use in VR (although possible, there is a thread about projecting xcsoar on to condor in VR). The LX doesnt suffer from this problem

Results yesterday were interesting. The Duo and Lak trading places, I would not have bet on that. Thats despite according to the chat, most Duo pilots, myself included, did not manage to use more than about half their battery (I will ask duo pilots their voltage in the result form next time, it wont affect scoring, but just out of curiosity). Or maybe its exactly because of that, as this was a fairly fast task that required little turning, and the high wing loading made much more of a difference. Still, balancing the lak and duo now seems to be roughly in the right ballpark at least.

[JLN]

Hello,
As I said I use to take snapshots. For that I use mirror rendering. And there is no problem. Yesterday I thought I had it but I had not. and when I took a snapshot I had the beginning of the flight.
I fly in VR Quest 2 but not direct in Oculus but through Steam Vr because I prefer the graphics. Yesterday when I went out of the VR Condor stopped. And I could not do anything more.
Next time I will check twice. and I'll have a look to the pc screen to see mirror...

[velaskez]

Vertigo, could you tell us what's the formula for the overall averaged penalized score? Does it take into account training days? I assume it should not.

[Vertigo]

Vertigo, could you tell us what's the formula for the overall averaged penalized score? Does it take into account training days? I assume it should not.

No, training days are ignored.
Its the average of all started flights + one imaginary ("penalized") flight with zero score. Or put differently, sum of all your day scores divided by (the number of day scores +1).

Using an average of all started flights ensures a reasonably fair scoring that is not too closely tied to however often you can fly, because unlike RL, you cant/shouldnt expect everyone to be able to participate every time. It also keeps things uncertain until the end, since scoring zero or low could easily topple the current leader, even on the last race (just like IRL).

The imaginary zero score flight is needed to ensure whoever wins day one, doesnt get a guaranteed victory by no longer flying, since a normal average would given him the maximum possible score; with this system, every time you do fly you can improve your score (but you can also worsen it, even if you fly every day, a mistake will cost you, just like IRL).

[Vertigo]

Since we are flying the Duo and doing custom scoring, I thought maybe we could experiment a little with scoring dual pilots.

With 1000 point scoring, you can just give both pilots the same score, as if both flew separately and finished at the same time.

But we use GP style rank based scoring, so we shouldnt double the amount of point that can be won. So I propose we use the same principle, and for ranking we consider the pilots rather than the planes, and consider both pilots that fly together to have finished ex aequo.

Say a double piloted duo finishes in second place, that would be 16 points. So we give both pilots 16 points. But the plane (or rather, pilot) that finishes behind the duo would then be scored as if 4th (12p). This keeps the overall points to be won the almost same, and the same as what is theoretically possibly with ties.

This wont be ready for tonights flight, but if there is interest, I could do it by next week.

[6266]

Say a double piloted duo finishes in second place, that would be 16 points. So we give both pilots 16 points. But the plane (or rather, pilot) that finishes behind the duo would then be scored as if 4th (12p). This keeps the overall points to be won the almost same, and the same as what is theoretically possibly with ties.

I wanted to stop thinking for others, but I like to think about organization of competitions too much ...

IMHO you can't give the following pilot less points because of a duo in the rank above. An example:

Before the last flight the best pilot has 85 points, the second 80. The winner gets 20 points, second 16, third 14 (I only guess, but it's the same with other numbers)

The second one only can win the competition if he wins (80 + 20 = 100), and the leading one is third (85 + 14 = 99). The leader wins on the second place (85 + 16 = 101). Easy solution for the second one, flying as duo and win, the leader has no chance.

On dual planes you should score the plane / the team, but not both pilots equal.

My 5 cent ...

[Vertigo]

Easy solution for the second one, flying as duo and win, the leader has no chance.

Well.. I wish it was easy to decide to just win the following race:).

But ok, how about this; instead of giving both pilots the top score, you give them both the average of their rank score. So if a duo wins, rather than both pilots getting 20 points each, they get (20+16)/2 = 18 each. And the second plane/third pilot gets 14. This was actually my initial thought, but I feared the perception of "losing" potential points would be off-putting to some.

[arneh]

Thanks for hosting this contest Vertigo! I really enjoyed it!

It was certainly a different and interesting challenge to try and figure out how to best use this extra energy. There were obviously a lot of different and interesting solutions to this, and positions could change a lot throughout the race as different pilots had used different amounts of energy.

Hope Condor can implement native support for this. Some basic support of allowing a certain amount of energy to be used I think should be fairly simple to implement. Would need an extra box in the NOTAM page which says how much energy allowed (handicap adjusted?), and a box to tell the penalty for using more (where one option would be outlanded, so a pure race could just be 0 allowed with penalty outlanding). But ideally there should be a way to monitor in the cockpit how much Wh has been used (or have remaining). Maybe it's enough to show this in the LX, as it does already have some FES-functionallity.

And to those who tried my task in yesterday's race, hope you didn't have a too traumatic time The task was made with the intention that you should need to use the motor at some points to make it. In my opinion eGlide tasks should need motor use for at least parts of the task, so the motor is not only used for getting a better climb ratio. But obviously that made the task quite challenging (but still somewhat realistic IMO).

[Vertigo]

The task was made with the intention that you should need to use the motor at some points to make it. In my opinion eGlide tasks should need motor use for at least parts of the task, so the motor is not only used for getting a better climb ratio. But obviously that made the task quite challenging (but still somewhat realistic IMO).

Couldnt agree more. And to be clear, when I said "its a good task, I hate it", I meant that in a good way, it was the sort of tasks where FES actually makes sense. Especially in my earlier tasks and when we allowed the entire battery in the LAK, FES was used as thermal booster each time and every time you climbed. The problem was usually finding moments where you could use it, and then you might as well fly 15m.

As for realism; I actually suspect IRL FES is used more as a "thermal avg booster". But, IRL you dont have a weather tab where you can increase thermal strength. in condor we do. So if thats all its used for, I find the added value in condor questionable. With tough/otherwise impossible tasks, it becomes interesting.

[timbaeyens]

Last task could be won by taking unreasonable (irl) risk by starting West over the ridge under rain/thunder/lightning...