E-glide FES mini competition

[arneh]

For what it's worth, I flew it offline. It certainly wasn't a winning flight, getting constant warnings that I would finish after sunset
https://www.condor.club/analysis/0/?rank=1094064

[Vertigo]

Ah, so you /condor did manage to save the correct FPL? I see no harm in accepting your result then. Feel free to fill out the google form.

[arneh]

Ah, so you /condor did manage to save the correct FPL? I see no harm in accepting your result then. Feel free to fill out the google form.

I started Condor after my computer rebooted, and flew offline the task which was saved when I tried to join the multiplayer race.

Ok, I'll log this as my result for tonight then, thanks

[arneh]

Ah, so you /condor did manage to save the correct FPL? I see no harm in accepting your result then. Feel free to fill out the google form.

I started Condor after my computer rebooted, and flew offline the task which was saved when I tried to join the multiplayer race.

Ok, I'll log this as my result for tonight then, thanks

My start opening time was obviously different, so I tried adjusting my time to get correct task time. So task time should be correct now, within a few seconds.

[Vertigo]

My start opening time was obviously different

Ah.. yeah, you didnt have the server join time. In a more serious comp that might be a problem as you could have had slightly different weather, but, you know.. if anyone else objects, Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace..

[Vertigo]

From next week on, Ill launch a second B server at 19:15 UTC for those who missed the first join window or have technical issues. Obviously you cant use the second server for points if you already started on the first server.

Also from next race on, please fill out the form even if you did not finish. This just being an experiment, I understand many do not care about their ranking, but in this scoring system there is a (big!) difference between 0 points and not having started, as zero point counts towards your overall average. I added everyone manually now (except ZBY who did not cross the start line), but in a busier competition I would give negative points to anyone not submitting their results.

Despite a ~8000m total climb in this race, and a fairly tricky task for those who didnt find wave early on, I still feel the FES battery is too big. Im guessing Im not the only one who finished with quite a bit of juice left in the tank. This is possibly made worse by unrealistic good FES performance of the Lak?

So Id like to give it a try to limit the allowed KWH to be more in line with the real e-glide and using screenshots as evidence. The real e-glide penalizes 1WH with 1S once you exceed your max energy allowed (the rules are confusing though, its not clear to me if you can exceed your MEA by 10% or 2x. In one paragraph it says >10% is scored as outlanded, but in the scoring section, you get time penalties up to 2x MEA?)

It also seems a reference MEA is set per task, and then corrected for each plane based on mass. So this can be varried every day. Im currently thinking allowing ~1/2 to 2/3 of the LAK condor battery and then applying a time penalty on every extra extra "bar" or volt you used up. Neither system is great, the bars arent very granular and the voltage indication is not linear. Id also have to check if/how voltage sag recovery is modelled. But maybe that non-linearity may actually be useful here. Voltage drop is largest with a nearly full and nearly empty battery, or at least should be, so if we allow ~half capacity, and if we score on voltage, the more you deplete the battery, the bigger the penalty. That actually makes sense.

As for making it fair vs the duo discus; the real e-glide allows KWH proportional to mass (at a given wingloading), so the duo would be allowed >2x more than the LAK. Again though, no idea how big the modelled battery is in condor, havent even tried the Duo FES yet.

[snip]

The real e-glide penalizes 1WH with 1S once you exceed your max energy allowed (the rules are confusing though, its not clear to me if you can exceed your MEA by 10% or 2x. In one paragraph it says >10% is scored as outlanded, but in the scoring section, you get time penalties up to 2x MEA?)

You can use energy up to MEA without penalties.
If you use energy between MEA and MEA +10% you get penalties.
If you use energy above MEA you are considered as outlanded.
All non finishers (including outlanded) get some point attibuted as the points are time after the race winner (Results are in decimal minutes behind the leader). So we need to put something. But it is limited to still have a chance to compete against the others.

[havet865]

Hello Vertigo and everyone,

Unfortunately, the FFVP had to cancel the eSports French Nationals at the very last minute. This event was originally planned for the next two weekends, leaving 50 pilots without an opportunity to fly. Some participants had even taken time off work or arranged special weekend leaves, which is not easy for everyone to manage.

To mitigate the impact on the community, we’ve stepped in to host a replacement event on the same dates. This new event is, of course, open to everyone, not just French pilots!

While checking the Condor.Club schedule to avoid conflicts with other major community events, I unfortunately overlooked your e-glide event. I sincerely apologize for this oversight.

Thank you for your flexibility in postponing your upcoming races. I greatly appreciate your understanding.

Wishing you all a great day,
Antoine

[RVB]

Hi Vertigo,

my condor crashed during waiting for the start.

Do I have to upload anything?

See you guys next week...

[Vertigo]

Sorry to hear that... nah, no need to upload anything if you didnt start.
BTW, there is a second server now if you want to try again next time, it starts 30 mins later, though you will probably be flying alone or alone-ish.

[Vertigo]

Pawel Zak, you uploaded your FTR to condor.club but you didnt use the condor club upload link in the briefing and so it is not listed in the race results, its just listed as a random flight somewhere. Took me a while to find it. Next time pls use the upload link on the briefing page.

Piotr Woryna, it seems you had a (very) early start. Im not sure what happened there, but you crossed the start line at 13h16m05s, about 15 minutes before it opened? I think you flew this offline after disconnecting? Even if that happens, you do have to wait for the line to open. Normally this would be scored zero, but whatever, for this once I adjusted your flight time for your early start. Next time it will be zero (edit: clarified; Piotr didnt have landscape patch, so got kicked, and flew the task on his own server, and changed jointime. Reminder, there is a B server available which launches after the first server jointime elapses)

Several non finishers didnt upload their FTR or submit their result via the form. a zero result (DNF) is very different from no result (no start) with this scoring system. I understand some of you may not care about result/rank, but then you will also not care if I give you negative points, which I will do from next race onwards if you started the task but did not upload your results. If you did not finish, you dont have to upload the FTR, just fill out the google form. If anyone misses the FTR upload window, feel free to send me a message on condor club and I will reopen it for you.

[Vertigo]

Next flight, I want to try scoring based on battery consumption.

In the real e-glide, you are allotted a number of KWH, penalized when you go up to 10% over that, and scored as outlanded beyond that. Given that many already struggle to fill out their result form, its easy to predict requiring everyone to make and upload screenshots on top of that, will not go well. So instead of using the real e-glide approach, I will reverse the logic; I will give a time bonus to anyone who does not use the entire battery and proves it by providing a screenshot.

To prove this, after crossing the finish line, you would have to open the realtime scoring (TAB key), then make a screenshot (default key: S) with the motor instrument visible, then later upload that screenshot using the google form. I realize there are ways to cheat this, but should that ever be seriously suspected, I do have an ace up my sleeve which will likely prove this.

The lak battery is at 115V full and 64V empty. The scale is not linear vs capacity, but this actually works to our advantage. For each task you will be given a target voltage (like 100V which is about 1/3 left). Any voltage above that will not give you bonus time, so you are better off using the battery down to that percentage. For every volt you have above 64V (and up to the target voltage), you will get X seconds time bonus. If you dont provide a valid screenshot, you will be assumed to have depleted your battery and you get no time bonus.

The question then becomes, how many seconds per volt to award. In the real e-glide the penalty is 1s per WH. I believe the condor LAK has a simulated 2.5KwH battery? So 1/3 of that would be a maximum of ~14 min time bonus. Or 14min/(100V-64V)=~23s per volt. Lets round that down to 20s as the voltage drop is far more significant when its empty. Especially on a nearly empty battery, it will make no sense to use the fes and miss out on the bonus, if you can avoid it.

I realize this is a bit rough, it further complicates the scoring/uploading/procedures, and the above numbers are based on little more than educated guess work and dart throwing, so Im open to suggestions or different ideas, but I want to start somewhere.

Also, side note. If anyone else wants to try their hand at making tasks for this, Im very much open to that too.

[arneh]

No objections to having less energy, despite getting used to having a lot now Maybe penalty or allowance should be different for Duo than MiniLAK, since it get's much less height from the same battery? Although that said I like that almost everyone uses the LAK now, so it's easier to compare what people are doing, and not just blaming the glider.

The question then becomes, how many seconds per volt to award. In the real e-glide the penalty is 1s per WH. I believe the condor LAK has a simulated 2.5KwH battery?

The MiniLAK (like all first generation FES systems) has 4.2 kWh batteries:

(from https://www.lak.lt/models/minilak/)

Also, side note. If anyone else wants to try their hand at making tasks for this, Im very much open to that too.

I think you're doing an excellent job creating new and interesting challenges for us, keep it up!

[Vertigo]

About the Duo; I agree it seems to be not very competitive at all, which is perhaps opposite of what I assumed initially. In the real e-glide allowed energy is corrected for mass, so the duo can use about double the lak, but I dont see an obvious way to account for that in our e-glide. Maybe we could set the target voltage to empty and lower the empty voltage to a fictional lower number, so duo users get a similar number of bonus seconds as Lak users, but they get to use the entire battery? Depending on target voltage, that still wouldnt double what they can use vs the lak, but it would at least be a lot better than now, and Im not overly worried about making this completely fair, its hard enough to get something that works with one plane; but there is also no reason to make it completely unfair, which it does seem to be right now.

As for KWH, duh, of course, thanks for correcting me, i was thinking of the allowed energy. Using the same logic as above that would put it somewhere around 38s per volt, lets maybe put it at 30.

As for the tasks; Im happy to hear you enjoy them, but I have no more experience making these kinds of tasks than anyone else (well, until recently at least lol), someone else may have good ideas too or just enjoy the challenge of making a task for this as it really opens up possibilities. Hopefully in the not too distant future e-glide will be properly supported and then most task setters will occasionally be making e-glide tasks, so this is a good opportunity to try. I also wouldnt mind flying one I didnt make myself.

[arneh]

LOL, I was being stupidly careless on my landing after finish, so I crashed into the only object in the area, the windsock That left me with only outside view, so I could not prove I did not use more battery than down to 103V I tried zooming in on display from outside, but unfortunately it showed full battery and not real state

Expensive lesson!