Start Penalties (Regatta Task)

[Pete D]

Flew a task on a multiplayer server which had a max start height (and max speed) and a regatta start. I misjudged my height approaching the line and was above the start height when I "crossed" the line high. In the previous version this would not register as a start and you could turn around and go again.
On this flight, however, the LX registered a start and the in-game scoreboard logged it as a start, giving me a large penalty.

Having turned around and crossed through again at the right height I hoped that Condor Club would still register a valid start, but that doesnt seem to be the case.

Does Condor 3 take the LX registering a start as the game start? Is there anyway to stop this? Is this an expected behaviour? It seems that as a Regatta the game does not then allow a restart.
I can obviously take caution and be at the right height, but I'm surprised that it registers a start above the max height, and that I can't restart!

[wickid]

Yes that is exactly how it should work.

[Stormrider]

Surely if you make a subsequent valid start, you should not then get the penalty (although obviously as a regatta task you'd have the time penalty of having to restart and the clock won't reset on the task). Seems odd that it works this way - is this how official comps with regatta starts work too?

[Pete D]

Hi, sorry for the delayed reply.

So just to confirm, is this only the case with Regattas? Or with normal starts too.
So I cannot cross the line at any height above start height, or I will get an unreversible penalty?

Its not clear from your response, but is the start in-game therefore tied to the flight computer? Is this the same with the C3 one, or just the LX.

Is there anyway to prevent this - assume there must be a setting in the LX to set the max start height so that it does not trigger an incorrect start?

[arneh]

In regatta start you get one start attempt (after the start line opens), so make sure you don't get any penalties first time you cross the line. Everybody is supposed to start at the same time, and it's actually a huge safety risk if someone turns back against the stream of gliders to make another start. In real life you get a huge penalty if you turn back after start in a regatta. In real life you can start before the start line opens too, and get some penalty if you do that.

In traditional start you can start as many times as you like, until the start line closes. Last one is the valid one, so make sure that one is without penalties.

Condor scores the start, and you can't affect this. You can select restart on the LX, but it won't change anything for Condor.

[janjansen]

If you restart in a non-regatta race, penalties will be reset. LX I think you need to confirm you started, and you can reset a start to navigate back to the start.

[Pete D]

In regatta start you get one start attempt (after the start line opens), so make sure you don't get any penalties first time you cross the line. Everybody is supposed to start at the same time, and it's actually a huge safety risk if someone turns back against the stream of gliders to make another start. In real life you get a huge penalty if you turn back after start in a regatta. In real life you can start before the start line opens too, and get some penalty if you do that.

In traditional start you can start as many times as you like, until the start line closes. Last one is the valid one, so make sure that one is without penalties.

Condor scores the start, and you can't affect this. You can select restart on the LX, but it won't change anything for Condor.

Thanks. I understand the nuances of the different starts and their applications in real-life.
However, I'm more interested in the application of my start in the in-game scoring. Condor 2 would not register a start above the start height. Condor 3 it seems does and takes its start trigger from the LX, and penalises that if its too high. If that cannot be turned off somehow for regattas, so be it.

[Pete D]

If you restart in a non-regatta race, penalties will be reset. LX I think you need to confirm you started, and you can reset a start to navigate back to the start.

Thanks, I havent flown a traditional start task yet in C3, but glad that restart is still an option there.

[arneh]

However, I'm more interested in the application of my start in the in-game scoring. Condor 2 would not register a start above the start height. Condor 3 it seems does and takes its start trigger from the LX, and penalises that if its too high. If that cannot be turned off somehow for regattas, so be it.

It's up to task setter if start above start height is allowed (with penalties) or not.

LX does not affect how Condor calculates start. In fact, pretty sure LX will trigger start if you're above start height, even if the Condor task does not allow it. It will not be a valid start in Condor, even if LX starts the task.
And the conversely, if you select restart in LX, and fly back to start, then it will not be a restart in Condor if it's a regatta start and only one start is allowed.

So pay attendtion to the start message in Condor, that is your actual start, and may be different from what the LX is telling you.

[Tomzy]

Correct. Symbols show that max GS (G), altitude (A) or both (AG) restrictions are set. Also you get a calculation, how high or low you will be while starting. Then it's up to the pilot to finnese the start. It will allow you to start even while above max altitude restriction, but you would of course get IRL penalty for that.

[Stormrider]

To confirm - is there any margin for this penalty, or does it happen regardless of height? eg, it counts a start if I'm within (say) 200ft of the max start height with a penalty, but doesn't count it at all afterwards. If I cross the "line" 10,000ft above max start height is that still counted as a start with a penalty? What's the margin here?

[wickid]

To confirm - is there any margin for this penalty, or does it happen regardless of height? eg, it counts a start if I'm within (say) 200ft of the max start height with a penalty, but doesn't count it at all afterwards. If I cross the "line" 10,000ft above max start height is that still counted as a start with a penalty? What's the margin here?

No margin. If you start high you get the number of points (between 1 and 10) times the number of meters.

It should not be used for normal start windows. Just set it to "not started" (all the way to the right). Then the behaviour is the same as Condor2.

[janjansen]

Maybe once uros gets bored and people have no new feature requests, which I gather, could happen any minute now we could pester him for a "best start counts" as per FAI rules, or at least a max height deviation/max penalty, as there is never a reason in even starting with -1000 points. But until then, its really up to tasksetters to avoid combining time windows and high start penalties.

[wickid]

Maybe once uros gets bored and people have no new feature requests, which I gather, could happen any minute now we could pester him for a "best start counts" as per FAI rules, or at least a max height deviation/max penalty, as there is never a reason in even starting with -1000 points. But until then, its really up to tasksetters to avoid combining time windows and high start penalties.

Best start counts can only be determined after the finish. It doesn't work for live scoring.

[janjansen]

Why couldnt you calculate current score for both/all starts and show the highest one? Its possible during the race they might flip (pretty fringe case I think, Id have to think about that) but you can just show the best one at any time.