How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

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maymar
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How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by maymar » Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:39 am

How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

The topic concerns the player's scoring in the case of bluescreens during the competition.
In my example, two ftr files that were saved despite the application failure.

In the first case, Condor had a bluescreen. The ErrorLog showed the following message: Controlers.Updating MouseCursor at 22:41:04: Invalid pointer operation.

Flight record on CC https://www.condor.club/analysis/0/?rank=964433


In the second case, Condor crashed/freezed. The ErrorLog showed: Condor seems to be frozen: Read magic value, : 22:44:28:078.

Flight record on CC https://www.condor.club/analysis/0/?rank=973032

Both incidents happened on the scenery of Slovenia2 during the final glide to Lesce Bled airport (about 5 km before the airport/finish line) during CWC2023.


Currently, CC counts such a task as a crash (0 points).

Since CC is able to recreate the flight record from the FTR file, is it possible to score the competitor for the distance flown in such cases?

I bring these cases up for discussion for the development of rules for future FAI and other competitions.

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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by 6266 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:12 pm

Because you wanted a discussion ...

To get 0 points for a bluescreen is not fair

To get 0 points for a crash is fair

If you get points for a bluescreen but not for a crash, you can to avoid from getting 0 points for a crash stop Condor seconds before the flight crashes, maybe via task manager.

Because you can't recognise if the flight ended with a bluescreen or a crash, you can't get a really fair result. Therefor I would recommend to give points for a crash. Not punishing the guilty is better than punishing the innocent.

My 5 cent ...
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by wickid » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:23 pm

I agree with 6266.

I saw you disconnect yesterday and I felt bad for you as you were doing pretty well. But a flight that has not safely landed or finished should not be scored with distance points in my opinion.

You don't even have to stop condor via task manager. Just escape and exit flight is enough to avoid a crash. Depending on the Condor Club settings you either get distance points (current setting for the world series), 0 points (CWC) or even penalty points of your status isn't finished or landed.
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by 6266 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:45 pm

wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:23 pm
I agree with 6266.
How can you agree with me if you say the opposite of what i say? ;-)
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by wickid » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:21 pm

6266 wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:45 pm
wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:23 pm
I agree with 6266.
How can you agree with me if you say the opposite of what i say? ;-)
Woops, I should read better... maybe it is the positive Corona test :oops: *cough cough*.

Just to be sure, I don't think you should get points for either a crash or a bluescreen.
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by dgtfer » Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 pm

wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:21 pm
6266 wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:45 pm
wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:23 pm
I agree with 6266.
How can you agree with me if you say the opposite of what i say? ;-)
Woops, I should read better... maybe it is the positive Corona test :oops: *cough cough*.

Just to be sure, I don't think you should get points for either a crash or a bluescreen.
It's the Nordic politeness, we southerners would have called you stupid while taking exactly the same position!
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by 6266 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:39 pm

wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:21 pm
... maybe it is the positive Corona test :oops: *cough cough*.
I wish you a fast recovery
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maymar
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by maymar » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:44 pm

wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:23 pm
I agree with 6266.

[...] But a flight that has not safely landed or finished should not be scored with distance points in my opinion.

You don't even have to stop condor via task manager. Just escape and exit flight is enough to avoid a crash. [...]
Ok - i understand that.

But why i cannot be scored when i can get something like virtual landing? That kind of landing it is used IRL when you start your motor during task.

The other thing is that today we don't have enough information. I don't know how FTR file is build but i suppose there is some status informing on safe landing or crash.
I will add another statuses:
- interrupted - for case when you still fly but by yourself quit Condor flight;
- error - for situation when aplication stop working properly (bluescreen or freezed) - now there is throwing exception and writing in errorlog so why not doing this same in FTR file?

For situation when you kill application from taskmanger i suppose that in this case in FTR will be no information about status so you can easyli check if user didn't forced to close app.

That is question to Uros - is it possible to have that feature :-)

When we will have above information, will be much easier to handle cases that today you get 0 points because application stop working proprely.

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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by 6266 » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:50 pm

If you can f.x. get a bluescreen due to a virus scanner blocking a file, it's an easy thing to induce that on purpose. So if you get an advantage with a bluescreen over a crash, you can do it. And you will not see any difference in the ftr file. That opens for cheating, the honest ones getting less points.

No good idea in my opinion
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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by wickid » Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:17 am

6266 wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:39 pm
wickid wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:21 pm
... maybe it is the positive Corona test :oops: *cough cough*.
I wish you a fast recovery
Thankyou, it is just a mild cold so I'll be oke :wink: . Last time was worse.

On topic:

There is no good way to differentiate between a honest blue screen and a intentional crashing of the game to avoid a crash. It is not guaranteed that every errormessage will write a valid errorlog or a FTR file at all.

I believe Maymars word for it in this case. I saw it happen live, and that was the first thing I thought.

Hit alt-F4 and it kills Condor as well for example. So there is too many avenues for avoiding a crash who are not detectable. It would be unfair to give distance points for people who willingly take risks and just quit the game just before a crash to avoid 0 points and get distance points. My opinion is: I rather see a scoring system that is promoting safe flying and outlanding, than a system that awards unsafe flying because someone might have an unfortunate bluescreen.

I genuinly crashed in the world series the other day because I didn't prepare properly for it. I still got distance points there because the ignore crashes... I think I should have gotten 0 points. But that is another discussion.

I personally have not had a bluescreen in Condor for the last 2 years while flying competitions. I always do a fresh reboot of my system and kill all unnessesary side stuff before flying important competitions. (NAS, fancy keyboard lighting, steam ect ect.). I don't do this when flying TchinTchin, but I've never had a problem there either.

Check onedrive or google drive app as well as your virusscanner. As 6266 says, it can block access to files Condor needs.
PH-1504, KOE

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Re: How to score a competitor who could not complete the task for reasons beyond his control?

Post by 6266 » Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:02 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:17 am
I believe Maymars word for it in this case. I saw it happen live, and that was the first thing I thought.
Of course, I'm discussing the possibilities to difference a crash from a bluescreen and how to use that for cheating. If I've been misunderstood, I apologize, I never thought Maymar did something wrong
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