CWC 2023 day 1

[wickid]

Hello CWC organisers!

First of all thankyou for organising this competition again. I have a small point though. Todays task had the option "randomise weather on each flight" turned on. This is generally a good setting for offline competitions so you can't "practice" beforehand.

However for a competition like CWC I think this is bad and hope that it was only on this task. Even though I did well, it is not a fair comparison seeing as I had different weather to the ones in the earlier servers. I might have gotten lucky with a really strong thermal at the right place... It also made team flying (which we know is a big part of modern competition flying) very difficult when you are not all in the same server, like we were today. People in server A were reporting a strong thermal, where people in server H were struggling in a blue hole... Even though I probably flew a top 10 position, I think this day should not be counted to the general ranking for the reasons stated above.

I know you probably turned it on because some people stream the race online, so later servers might have an advantage even though spectate mode is disabled. The other way of cheating (flying the earlier server on a different name) can be prevented by having the servers password protected and getting the password only via briefing.

Wiek (KOE)

[Paul_UK]

I agree for comps. The weather should be identical for all for the results to be fair. It only takes one lucky thermal to appear at the right time to take the win!

Is there any way to stop / block the streaming on the earlier servers?

[mada2000]

Hi,
Sorry my fault. I've checked all the rest task. The only first task was random by mistake.
Have a fun
Adam - AGO

[witor]

Hello CWC organisers!

First of all thankyou for organising this competition again. I have a small point though. Todays task had the option "randomise weather on each flight" turned on. This is generally a good setting for offline competitions so you can't "practice" beforehand.

I agree with this

However for a competition like CWC I think this is bad and hope that it was only on this task. Even though I did well, it is not a fair comparison seeing as I had different weather to the ones in the earlier servers. I might have gotten lucky with a really strong thermal at the right place...

Yes that's true, but even with the same weather people start at different times and anyone can hit a 'lucky thermal' at the perfect place, so it doesn't really matter if weather is randomised or not. However, as I said before I agree that each server should have the same weather.

It also made team flying (which we know is a big part of modern competition flying) very difficult when you are not all in the same server, like we were today. People in server A were reporting a strong thermal, where people in server H were struggling in a blue hole... Even though I probably flew a top 10 position, I think this day should not be counted to the general ranking for the reasons stated above.

I strongly disagree with this one. CWC is NOT a team competition. Nobody should be getting help from other pilots telling them where and how strong thermals are. I consider this kind of behaviour a poor sportsmanship to call it lightly and maybe even cheating if I had to use a stronger word. Following others is a perfectly viable strategy for REGATA races but not for individual competitions like CWC. That's why some time ago I suggested that C3 should have an 'arm start' feature, which as far as I know has been implemented in some real competitions. Pilot have to 'declare' a start time at which their start gate will be opened. In practice in condor you would press a button which would trigger let's say 10 minutes countdown and then your start gate would be opened for let's say 3 minutes (specific times could be set by the tasksetter in notam page'. If you miss your gate, you repeat the procedure again. This way people could start not being followed by others...

I know you probably turned it on because some people stream the race online, so later servers might have an advantage even though spectate mode is disabled. The other way of cheating (flying the earlier server on a different name) can be prevented by having the servers password protected and getting the password only via briefing.

Wiek (KOE)

In light of what you said I agree that servers should be password protected and that the flight videos should be published after the results.

I think this day should not be counted to the general ranking for the reasons stated above.

Strongly disagree. Just because a task setter made a small mistake (we are all humans) and just because other's could not collude to win doesn't mean that A33 who had a brilliant race with no help does not deserve to win or that you don't deserve your second place! You have both done very well and both of you fully deserve your points.

[wickid]

Yes A33 did very well, and so did several others. However not everybody had the same fair chance... that is why I still think it should be nutralised.

[maymar]

However not everybody had the same fair chance...

To have this same chance we should resign from timezones - everyone fly at this same time on servers with this same weather conditions - that's the only option to compare each others and eliminate chance to cheat.

[CristianoConrado]

Hello everybody;

Competitions with multiple available times is really a challenge for the organizers.

In this topic the truth is that if there is someone willing to gain a dishonest advantage, he will have it.

Random meteorology was a way that was found to prevent people from having tips on who flew earlier on servers, watching a live stream from a pilot, using an IGC file from a friend pilot who flew earlier to check the exact thermals positions.

Everything in life has its pros and cons and random weather really makes pilots fly in different conditions.

And there?
What is the solution?

There is not!
Either we will have one or the other.

The truth is that the XMas Cup model (only one server) is the only way to avoid any unwanted advantage.

But don't forget that this is a community of people looking for challenge and fun, what would be the fun of flying a task using cheat?

I was a race director for a long time on Glideracing and I never joined a race before race time on the server even just to check the weather as I always thought it would spoil the fun. Sometimes the task was horrible (very weak), because of that.

This really is in the hands of each one.

As I see Condor Competitions as a Hobby, I would vote for no random wheather and let the people live with their conscience.

[CON]

[Snapcase]

However not everybody had the same fair chance...

To have this same chance we should resign from timezones - everyone fly at this same time on servers with this same weather conditions - that's the only option to compare each others and eliminate chance to cheat.

+1


We can't have "same fair chance" if there are few timezones:

1. "some people stream the race online, so later servers might have an advantage even though spectate mode is disabled" - KOE

2. "The other way of cheating (flying the earlier server on a different name) can be prevented by having the servers password protected and getting the password only via briefing. " KOE

What if someone create other acc in CC and get briefing with password?

[CristianoConrado]

The only problem for no timezones is the number of pilots unable to fly some competitions.

[Paul_UK]

We can't have "same fair chance" if there are few timezones:

1. "some people stream the race online, so later servers might have an advantage even though spectate mode is disabled" - KOE

2. "The other way of cheating (flying the earlier server on a different name) can be prevented by having the servers password protected and getting the password only via briefing. " KOE

What if someone create other acc in CC and get briefing with password?

Do you think there are some out there desperate enough to go to the trouble of creating a 2nd account etc for Condor? I'd like to think there isn't but I guess there will be some who have plenty of time on their hands to do this type of thing.

I am hoping in Condor 3 the weather improvements will include a more unstable airmass where you can seek out more defined lines of energy. That way it won't only be those who find the best climbs taking the win. I am looking forward to anything that throws in more variation to the weather.

[Snapcase]

The only problem for no timezones is the number of pilots unable to fly some competitions.

Yeah i know it - it'a a big problem to solve.

Do you think there are some out there desperate enough to go to the trouble of creating a 2nd account etc for Condor? I'd like to think there isn't but I guess there will be some who have plenty of time on their hands to do this type of thing.

I am hoping in Condor 3 the weather improvements will include a more unstable airmass where you can seek out more defined lines of energy. That way it won't only be those who find the best climbs taking the win. I am looking forward to anything that throws in more variation to the weather.

1. Create second account in CC
2. Join competition on both accounts in CC
3. Join 17:30 UTC with secondary "training/cheat" account, try flying the tast with thermals "on"
4. Join 19:30 UTC with primary account, fly with "benefits"

Thats ugly but how can you know if nobody is doing that to win?
In gaming industry cheating is big issue and there are many ppl doing it.

What could we do in the future to counteract it?

Maybe special ID for Condor licence (someone could buy second one) / some harddrive ID (i dont know if you could override it?) / WIFI/LAN MAC (easy to change) / IP (easy to change with VPN)?

[6266]

What could we do in the future to counteract it?

Nothing technical, because it will not work

Second Condor licence
Second PC
Second WLAN

And you can't forbid two people living in the same house flying on the same WLAN or on the same pc.

You only can solve that with organisation

Flying all at the same time (timezone problem)

Flying with randomized weather, but allow more attempts (maybe with a maximum number of attempts). Only the last try counts. So no advantage to fly it twice because the weather is not equal, but possiblity of correcting bad luck with the weather with a second try (needs maybe more days for one task)

Accept the cheating

[Paul_UK]

1. Create second account in CC
2. Join competition on both accounts in CC
3. Join 17:30 UTC with secondary "training/cheat" account, try flying the tast with thermals "on"
4. Join 19:30 UTC with primary account, fly with "benefits"

Thats ugly but how can you know if nobody is doing that to win?
In gaming industry cheating is big issue and there are many ppl doing it.

What could we do in the future to counteract it?

Maybe special ID for Condor licence (someone could buy second one) / some harddrive ID (i dont know if you could override it?) / WIFI/LAN MAC (easy to change) / IP (easy to change with VPN)?

It is certainly a challenge. I think the idea linking with the Condor License could be a good idea. Someone would have to be really desperate to buy two copies of Condor to enable them to gain an advantage. This said now gliding is recognised by the FAI as an e-sport anti-cheat may be something that needs to be looked at a little closer, especially if there are cash prizes up at stake. For the bigger comps that may have a cash prize it could be a rule that you must stream yourself (face on cam) flying?

[6266]

I think the idea linking with the Condor License could be a good idea

So two brothers or sisters with one pc and one Condor licence will not be allowed to participate?

[Snapcase]

It is certainly a challenge. I think the idea linking with the Condor License could be a good idea. Someone would have to be really desperate to buy two copies of Condor to enable them to gain an advantage. This said now gliding is recognised by the FAI as an e-sport anti-cheat may be something that needs to be looked at a little closer, especially if there are cash prizes up at stake. For the bigger comps that may have a cash prize it could be a rule that you must stream yourself (face on cam) flying?

I think it will be to much (buy a webcam/privacy issue), streaming software, some FPS issues with old PCs. And if someone flew the task 2 houres before he will remember everything so what you want to see on stream? He's thoughts?

I think 1 timezone of big comps solves everything (look at VSGP 2021). But some ppl will be disadvantaged with it...