NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

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Pit_R
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NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:08 pm

Hello all!

We're back with small Thursday's event...
Something for fans of slower flying.
Our more or less realistic contest for the first time in Norway... :) Not the first time in Standard class.


Norway Condor Competitions :: NCC :: Std Class

Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th, 2021

ncc_pola.jpg

CC site and registration:
https://www.condor.club/comp/show/0/?id=596


Tasks are inspired (worth to check!) by the 'Norwegian Nationals':
https://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/norwe ... rmoen-2021

and the 'Norwegian National Sportsclass':
https://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/norwe ... moen-2021/

The competitions take place in Elverum Starmoen and we'll use the Southern Norway scenery.

There will be two C-C Practice Day: Sept: 16th and 23rd
First racing day: Sept 30th (+ next five Thursdays till Nov. 4th) => Six days (five scored)

All are welcome! Feel free to join.

Day: Thursdays

Server A and B: 20.00 CEST [18.00 UTC]
Server C will start at 20.30 CEST [18.30 UTC]

+30 min join time, 1 min race in

Scoring: best 5 of 6 racing days, 1000 pts for the daily winner

Landscape: Southern Norway 4
Name in Condor: SouthernNorway4
Author(s): AM Guettler :arrow: (Thank you very much for great scenery!) :)
Date of release: April 5th, 2018

Download: https://www.condor.club/viewscenery/242/?id=273

"415 x 460 km scenery, which covers most of Southern Norway and includes almost all glider fields in use currently in Norway.

Updated to support all new Condor 2 features:
* 30 m elevation grid
* 8k terrain textures
* Dynamic terrain shadows
* Reflective water
* Much more detailed runways

The terrain varies quite a bit: from relatively flat farmlands and forests in the south-east, to the steep mountains and fjords in the west, and valleys and rolling hills or mountain in between."

Test server (worth to test scenery and join possibility before competition): NCC :: Test [working]

More info soon! Stay tuned! ;)
Have fun and good luck!

edit:
12.09: NCC :: Test server is up and running
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Last edited by Pit_R on Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:59 am

Is it indeed 15 years?! Damn - that was quick. :] Thanks, Thierry, for all this time.

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Thanks for your service and CGR www.condor.club ! Happy birthday! :)
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by BOD1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:18 pm

Thank you Pit :)
I extracted some stats: viewtopic.php?p=176589#p176589
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:34 pm

Hello!

Short info. :)
If you're unsure if scenery is in the right version or want to check join possibility
before 1st practice day, there is test server up and running - NCC :: Test
Feel free to verify your copy of Southern Norway 4. ;)

GL today!
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:46 am

Hello!

CGR to the winners! Nice averages (and too short task maybe). It was fast and smooth. ;)
Was veery good weather yest - surprise to me as well. Expected rather smthn harder (from our tasksetter). ;)


Results on c-c: https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18789
Results on CSV Sharing Tool (sortable SCI stats columns): https://is.gd/iIzvmp

Some knowledge from SCI:

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b click to enlarge
NCC_P1.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind)
mIAS: mean indicated airspeed (the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts
DeltaGN: additional gliding number (difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air
AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent, only gliding passages are regarded.
Notice - when weather is 'weak' some pilots may dump ballast, some flying without etc - it influences stats depend on polar, but also mCR etc.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


Curio:
ncc_p1_pts_dist.png

Someone asked for silent chat sound.
Here it is (+ two more): https://www.condor.club/srchgoodies/0/?id=1112


@Pierre Romi, F-ROMI (SC5) - looks like you didn't cross finish line. :(
C2 is showing msg about finishing. Next time try maybe with zoom on pda to be sure.

SC5_finish.png

@ Denis Dureux DLD, Zoltan Kepes OZ, Rostyslav Tkachenko UAR, Jeff Albert JF
Pilots with high negative values of DeltaGN and Vmet please consider turning 'Vertical sync' on in C2 Setup/graphics page.
Who knows - maybe it can help to solve this problem, so worth to give it a try. Of course, smooth flying is also needed.

Thanks all for joining, was pleasure to fly on full server. :)
See you next.
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by 6266 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:33 pm

Thanks for that task and this competition. It was nice to compete first time over a region I know in RL. The lake we flew over (Mjøsa, Norways biggest inland lake) is the place where I'm sailing.


But it is a competition, not a combat. Turning in a lift I heard a plane coming very fast before chrashing into me. I'm sure I couldn't see it because it hit me from behind. Now chance to prevent it. And I can't believe that he doesn't saw me on his way straight ahaed.
NCCCrash.png
Shit happens, it's ok, we have the Q. But minimum I expect after such a crash is to see a "sorry" in the chat. Looked like he didn't care.

Remember it's Condor 2, not WW 2. I felt shot yesterday.
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Fox9 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:13 pm

Some remarks to Vmet and DeltaGN

The statistics (see PIT's table) are created by the analyze tool SCI (ShowCondorIGC). It's freeware and you can download it here: https://virtualsoaring.eu/download
This tool uses Vmet and DeltaGN. But what does it mean?

Let us look at the datas of my flight (F9) with the following values:
mean glide number (mGN) = 39.26
mean indicated air speed (mIAS) = 171 km/h
If you look into the polar of LS8neo with full ballast you see at 171km/h the sink rate is 1.30 m/s and the gliding number GN = v/vs is 36.54 (where v=IAS). SCI approximates the polar by an anylytical function. Therefore there are small differences. SCI gets GN=36.33 and vs=1.31. The difference between the measured mGN (39.26) and the GN from polar is DeltaGN, in the example 2.93. Mostly mGN is greater than the GN from polar, because the pilots use vertical movement of the air (flying under clouds, along ridges etc.). The mean sink rate are lower then the sink rate of the polar. The difference is Vmet. It is the average climbrate of the air. With Vmet you can compare planes with diffrent polars and different speeds.

If you have a significant lower Vmet which may be negativ, it is possible, that you have the 'sink bug'. In many cases you can avoid it, if you enable the 'Vertical sync' checkbox in Condor Set Up/Graphics.

Fox9

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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:29 am

Hello all,
We're after 2nd practice day. It wasn't (too) easy this time.
Congrats goes to Witold (WRW), Stephen (SJH) and Artur (A33)! Well done gents... :)


Results on c-c: https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18790
Results on CSV Sharing Tool (sortable columns): https://is.gd/ZfyRT3

Some knowledge from SCI:

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b click to enlarge
NCC_P2.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind)
mIAS: mean indicated airspeed (the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts
DeltaGN: additional gliding number (difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air
AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent, only gliding passages are regarded.
Notice - when weather is 'weak' some pilots may dump ballast, some flying without etc - it influences stats depend on polar, but also mCR etc.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


Tracks of Top 3:
(Notice: WRW and SJH made restart of their race and with great results - so there is always possibility to start again, sometimes worth. :)

SCI_P2.jpg

Thanks all for joining, it was a pleasure to fly on full server again. :)
See you next on Day 1 - contest will begin.

And, as always, please save a height! We have little 4WD towing cars. ;)
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by 6266 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:20 am

Pit_R wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:29 am
And, as always, please save a height! We have little 4WD towing cars. ;)
Really? Ok, maybe next time ... :-D
ncc.png
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:15 pm

Hello all,
We're after 1st race. It wasn't (too) easy again. Weather became weaker, will see next days.
Congrats goes to Erik (EP), Frank (O9) and Zdenek (ZDJ)! Good job gents.
(Yeah - I know - maybe the task was too short, esp. for fast, skilled pilots.) :)

Results on c-c: https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18791
Results on CSV Sharing Tool (sortable columns): https://is.gd/xetqSc

Some stats from SCI:

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b click to enlarge
NCC_D1.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind)
mIAS: mean indicated airspeed (the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts
DeltaGN: additional gliding number (difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air
AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent, only gliding passages are regarded.
Notice - when weather is 'weak' some pilots may dump ballast, some flying without etc - it influences stats depend on polar, but also mCR etc.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.

Notice: Wind Whisperer (1WW) have made restart and SCI didn't count rest of his flight, we will try to fix it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

:idea: And podium on map:

NCC_SCI_flights_D1.jpg
Thanks all for joining, and see you on Day 2.
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:31 pm

Hello all,
We're after 2nd race. Nice route and strong (but tricky) weather.
Congrats to Sean (S19), Paul (57) and Mikko (MX)! I'd say one word: fast! That was really fast! WD :)

Results on c-c: https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18792
Overall after two days: https://www.condor.club/comp/globalscore/211/?&id=596

Results on CSV Sharing Tool (sortable columns!): https://is.gd/LydcMI

Some stats from SCI

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b click to enlarge
NCC_D2.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind)
mIAS: mean indicated airspeed (the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts
DeltaGN: additional gliding number (difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air
AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent, only gliding passages are regarded.
Notice - when weather is 'weak' some pilots may dump ballast, some flying without etc - it influences stats depend on polar, but also mCR etc.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


:idea: Top 3 flights:

NCC_SCI_flights_D2.jpg

Thanks all for joining, and see you on Day 3 - AAT [1 h 45 min.]
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Pit_R » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:41 pm

Hello all,
3rd day was tough. Congratulations to Witold (WRW), Artur (A33) and Erik (EP)! Well done with this atypical weather.

Results on c-c: https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18793
Overall after three days: https://www.condor.club/comp/globalscore/211/?&id=596

Code: Select all

Top three after three days:

1 WRW	Witold Rozak	Poland		2,824.65
2 MX	Mikko Nurminen	Finland		2,732.15
3 S19	Sean Churchill	United Kingdom	2,715.30

CGR!

Results on CSV Sharing Tool (sortable columns!): https://is.gd/1EGZ2U

Attention
If you have a significant lower Vmet which may be negative, it is possible, that you have the 'sink bug'.
In many cases you can avoid it, if you enable the 'Vertical sync' checkbox in Condor Set Up/Graphics.


Image

Some stats from SCI

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b click to enlarge
NCC_D3.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind)
mIAS: mean indicated airspeed (the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts
DeltaGN: additional gliding number (difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air
AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent, only gliding passages are regarded.
Notice - when weather is 'weak' some pilots may dump ballast, some flying without etc - it influences stats depend on polar, but also mCR etc.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


:idea: Top 3 flights. Very different routes was successful.

NCC_SCI_flights_D3.jpg

Thanks all for joining, and see you on Day 4 - Once again AAT [1 h 45 min.]
If you're not familiar with this kind of task, please read/view some (short) articles/videos (with explanations and good advices) here:
https://is.gd/XzvsNj

For external PDAs, there is a perfect tool by Marc Till (Bre901 on forum): CoTaCo (COndor TAsk COnverter).
Converts Condor flight plans (.fpl) to XCSoar (.tsk) or LK8000 (.lkt) or See You tasks (.cup)
Current version: V3.4 (09/10/2021) All his tools here: https://condorutill.fr/
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Kestrel_BY » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:44 pm

Hi there,
If I can give my humble feedback about this task : I found the slow conditions interesting and I have no qualms with them, I even actually enjoyed trying to gain altitude after a navigation failure causing me to go really low (and I probably never had to fight that hard in a condor flight).

However I really disliked the turbulences. To start with I find them quite unrealistic, being some sort of perpetual, more-or-less regular hectic motion. On top of that, turbulences make it really tiring (or nearly impossible) to keep a decently stable IAS (especially since the glider is shaking ridiculously but we do not get any feelings in a simulator), and I find it to be much of an annoyance without any good nor interesting side to the thing to balance it.
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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Fox9 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:37 pm

Hi Kestrel_BY,

in this race the turbulence was set to 'Moderate'. Most of the flights in Condor use this setting. With turbulence you must fly faster to keep a constant IAS. Maybe that the 'Thermal Strength Variation' (it was 'Very High') had some influence. If you fly too slow, you get into a stalll. Then the plane is uncontrollabe. You must fly a little faster in this situations. Then you can controll your plane and balance your speed.

Fox9

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Re: NCC :: Norway Condor Competition :: Std Class (Sept. 16th - Nov. 4th)

Post by Kestrel_BY » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:42 pm

Fox9 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:37 pm
Hi Kestrel_BY,

in this race the turbulence was set to 'Moderate'. Most of the flights in Condor use this setting. With turbulence you must fly faster to keep a constant IAS. Maybe that the 'Thermal Strength Variation' (it was 'Very High') had some influence. If you fly too slow, you get into a stalll. Then the plane is uncontrollabe. You must fly a little faster in this situations. Then you can controll your plane and balance your speed.

Fox9
Generally most condor flights are done with Turbulences set to "none" or "light". And to my knowledge the thermal strength variation doesn't influence turbulences, only the distributivity of the thermal strength.
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