FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

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Lenticular
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Lenticular » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:34 pm

Jazz_82 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:10 pm
I don't see servers online ...
is there any problem or am I not seeing them?
I see both servers (A and B). "Waiting for Race Start".
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wickid
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by wickid » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 pm

Thanks for today's race. Some comments:

If you make the start height in game the same as the maximum race start height people with an engine may be able to climb to an optimum position to start. They have to descent to the "start height" before they can start the race. But if this is the same as the race start height there is no penalty for using the engine. So in theory you could get an optimum position without having to use natural lift. Today it is no issue as the cloudbase and ridge gave sufficient height for an optimum start. But with a low cloudbase it could be really advantageous if you can climb above the cloudbase. Especially with the really short task the extra height and energy at the start can be worth up to a minute of time. Today's top ten were within a minute in my server.

Is there a reason to turn the TP helpers on? Not that I mind, it helps a lot with optimum rounding of the TPs. But as there is no official livestream I don't really see the point of having them on in a serious competition. Would add some realism.

If you ask people to livestream the event and you have multiple time slots, please turn on "randomise weather". Now the thermals will be in the same place in the later servers. I can go watch a livestream and then know exactly at what time and what height the best thermal is. If you randomise the thermal distribution will be different between servers preventing people from practicing the task.
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Jazz_82
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Jazz_82 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:35 pm

Lenticular wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:34 pm
I see both servers (A and B). "Waiting for Race Start".
Yes, the servers went online a few minutes after I wrote.
However well after 19:00 UTC +2
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Lenticular
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Lenticular » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:13 am

Did everyone join the servers at 1900z this evening? I only saw one other competitior tonight at the 2300z slot. :(
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JanisTeteris
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by JanisTeteris » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:08 am

Good afternoon
Is the start time No. 2 (if the leader started at 13:26:21) really the same for everyone?
Is there a description of the start procedure in competition mode?

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wickid
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:20 am

It should be roughly the same when airstart is used.

After the server starts you will get:

Jointime (15 min)
Waiting for race start (10 min)
Line open. In theory this should be at 13:25:00.

However every competitor needs to have a chance to launch before waiting for race start begins to count. When aerotow or winch is used it only starts counting after every one in the server has had their first launch attempt.

With airstart the launch attempt is entering the server. So it can happen that after jointime is over somebody is still either in the GUI or waiting on the loading screen to finish. That delays the "waiting for race start" so these people also have the full 10 min to climb for the race start. That accounts for the 1 min 26 seconds of delay in your server. AFAIK this additional wait is capped at about 2 or 3 minutes and people will be kicked automatically if they wait too long in the GUI after jointime is over. But I'm not sure about that.
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Bre901 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:11 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:20 am
AFAIK this additional wait is capped at about 2 or 3 minutes and people will be kicked automatically if they wait too long in the GUI after jointime is over. But I'm not sure about that.
I'm 99.9% sure it is 2 minutes and I can confirm people get kicked (I have personally experienced that as my old PC takes ages to load big sceneries)
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by JanisTeteris » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:50 pm

Well yes, I thought the race was like the rules of a glider race, but here it turns out to be like a Formula 1 arcade.
Well, I'll try to adapt, but it's not right.
While flying solo, in the meantime, it doesn't matter what the start procedure is.

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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Bre901 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:35 pm

JanisTeteris wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:50 pm
Well yes, I thought the race was like the rules of a glider race, but here it turns out to be like a Formula 1 arcade.
Well, I'll try to adapt, but it's not right.
Have you ever heard of the FAI Sailplane Grand Prix ? http://www.sgp.aero/italy2020.aspx?contestID=32991

This competition is actually the transposition in Condor of the ongoing SGP at Varese (Italy) . Everyday the task is the same as in RL.

The regatta start is a feature of the Grand Prix races
The air start has been selected in order to reduce waiting time (there have been 40 pilots connected on server A every day)
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by JanisTeteris » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:25 pm

I am very sorry for the misunderstanding, but you were still able to point to these rules, because not everyone has flown by them and they are not applied everywhere. At the same time, I was confused by the fact that the condor.club flight track analyzer correctly calculates the start time according to the classic glider start principle, but then I find out that my time is ten (for example) minutes worse.
Once again, I am very sorry, because this is really my first experience in a regatta, and I had not flown under such rules - the last time I was in the air was 24 years ago.

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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:11 pm

No problem. There are 3 types of competition:

Classic race:

After the jointime and the "race in" time window the start line opens and you have between 1 min and 2 hours to start depending on the settings in Condor. You will see a countdown timer "start window closes" in the top left corner of the screen. In the GUI you can see this type of race is selected by looking next to the map. If there is a "time window" set, it is a classic race like you are used to.

AAT race:

Assigned Area Task. This is not supported natively by Condor. However Condor-Club is able to score these types of tasks. Usually the start is similar to a race task. However from the time you cross the line you have a certain minimum time to fly a as large as possible distance via the given sectors. The in game score table will be useless in this case. Scoring can be done by uploading the .ftr file to Condor Club. The highest average speed wins as with a race task. But calculated via the actual flight route the pilot flew instead of a fixed course as in a race.

Grand Prix (regatta) race:

That is what this competition is. As soon as the line opens the time for everybody starts counting. First over the finish line wins the task. This current competition is the virtual counterpart of the real world Sailplane Grand Prix being held in Varese at the moment. Normally GP's are scored with 10 points for the winner and then down to 1 point for 10th place. However due to the large number of pilots in Condor versus the real life race scoring would not reflect the actual skill level of each pilot. So the Condor version of the competition is scored with the 1000 point system. In the GUI you can see it is this type of start by looking at the "Time Window" box. If it reads 0 it is a Grand Prix style start.
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Jazz_82 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:36 pm

As for the weather conditions, are they adjusted to be similar to the real conditions during the real race?

Yesterday I found a certain discrepancy especially as regards the wind, at least above Calcinate del Pesce.
Looking at the trees near the company where I work it seemed to me it was windier
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:44 pm

I think so. We are flying slightly faster than the real life competitors. But we can (and do) take more risks in Condor. The gliders in Condor are also factory fresh, clean gliders. So they always achieve their claimed performance. I think the weather is quite well matched. Today the winners flew around 140 kph in Condor, were the real life winner flew 118 kph.
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by Bre901 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:18 am

Jazz_82 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:36 pm
Yesterday I found a certain discrepancy especially as regards the wind, at least above Calcinate del Pesce.
Looking at the trees near the company where I work it seemed to me it was windier
Indeed, the wind is purposefully set to a lower value than IRL, as the ridge lift is too effective and reproducible in Condor.
Otherwise the (mainly) thermal task would become a ridge-flying one.
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Re: FAI Sailplane Grand Prix - Qualifying - Varese ITALY 2021

Post by dgtfer » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:44 pm
I think so. We are flying slightly faster than the real life competitors. But we can (and do) take more risks in Condor. The gliders in Condor are also factory fresh, clean gliders. So they always achieve their claimed performance. I think the weather is quite well matched. Today the winners flew around 140 kph in Condor, where the real life winner flew 118 kph.
Among the differences between real SGP and Condor, we have the start ground speed limit at 170km/h, flying below the minimum altitude between the reporting point and the finish line forbidden, and the main one the wingloading limited to 50kg/m².
For a JS3 18m, that's 100kg less of ballast, it makes a big difference, especially on ridge flight.
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