WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

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WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Wed May 26, 2021 12:52 am

Hello all!

We're back with small Thursday's event...
Something for fans of slower (lowland mostly) flying.
Our more or less realistic contest again in 18 m class and again in NZ... :)


Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: WCC :: 18 m Class

June 3rd, 2021 - July 22nd, 2021

WCC_pola.jpg


CC site and registration:
https://www.condor.club/comp/show/0/?id=586


Tasks are based by RL events which took place in Waipukurau (NZYP in C2).
Training 1 is a selfmade task. The others are inspired by competitions flown in Waipukurau in the years 2015-2021.
Look into Soaringspot: https://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/search/?q=waipukurau for more info.

Some info about town: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waipukurau

There will be two C-C Practice Day: June 3rd and 10th.
First racing day: June 17th (+ next five Thursdays till July 22nd) => six days (five scored)

Day: Thursdays

Server A and B: 20.00 CEST [18.00 UTC]
Server C will start at 20.30 CEST [18.30 UTC]

+30 min join time, 1 min race in

Scoring: best 5 of 6 racing days, 1000 pts for the daily winner

Scenery we will fly: Matamata 1.0
Date of release: November 9th, 2018
(Uncompressed scenery size: 11.75 GiB)

Author(s): PH722 WW
Creators:
- 3D Trees by The Condor Team
- 3D Airports and 3D Objects by WW
- Initiative and Realization by WW
- Thermalmap by EDB

Scenery download: https://www.condor-club.eu/viewscenery/242/?id=299

Test server (worth to test scenery and join possibility before competition): WCC - Test [shortly]

More information soon. Stay tuned! ;)
Have fun and good luck!
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm

Hello all!
Small teaser... Basic briefing for tomorrow's 1st practice day.
You can see where Waipukurau is situated on North Island.
Feel free to join: https://www.condor.club/comp/register/205/?id=586
Good luck!

wcc_practice_1.jpg
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:11 pm

Hello!
Practice day won by Frank (O9) by KO. :) Awesome performance, congrats - well done.
https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18483

Here are some SCI stats and below top three flights (notice: on pic - gliders are shown by task time).

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_P1.png
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


Click to enlarge
SCI_flights.jpg
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:49 pm

Hello!
2nd practice day won by me by pure luck. Don't like it myself too. :roll: I was not much over 100+ AGL when spotted a great (as for the day) thermal. This could be treated as outland - and in some contests indeed is. We can consider adding such rule (please write your opinion), esp. there is nice tool from Marc Till (Bre901) to show AGL violations - VerifLocal: Flight analyser, safety oriented at https://condorutill.fr
Below, to compare - much better flights from Jon (123) and Robin (RAM). CGR!

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18484

Here are some SCI stats + top three flights (notice: on pic - gliders are shown by task time).

As usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_P2.png
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.


BTW: I was flying with 170 kg ballast, which is set there.

Click to enlarge
SCI_flights_P2.jpg
See you next Thu on Day 1
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by 6266 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:42 pm

Pit_R wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:49 pm
... I was not much over 100+ AGL when spotted a great (as for the day) thermal. This could be treated as outland - and in some contests indeed is. We can consider adding such rule (please write your opinion) ...
My opinion is, not to add such a rule. You are outlandet, when the plane is on the ground, not earlier. Find a lift in 10 or 50 meters and get it centered, it's ok, call it luck or skill. There is in Condor no risk for your live to do that. In RL such a rule can save live, so it's maybe worth a rule there. Condor has some differences to RL, let us enjoy them. To really simulate RL in Condor needs more rules, f.x. not to change a 200.000 Euro (?) plane on every competition day on the other side of the globe, only because of weather conditions ...

My 5 cent

BTW: Flying on the ridge in 50 meters over ground will then be an outlanding? ;-)


PS: Thanks for the flight yesterday, I liked it very much
P. Klett / PK6
Flat_Land_Club: Informations and anonymized results on http://www.baleit.no/flc.nsf

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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Bre901 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:20 pm

6266 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:42 pm
BTW: Flying on the ridge in 50 meters over ground will then be an outlanding? ;-)
VerifLocal manual wrote:
Low-level flight

Low-level flight can be detected: the minimum height is defined by [Parameters /Minimal height AGL (flight)]
(no detection will be performed if the value is zero).
The trajectory will be coloured purple and the cumulative time will be displayed in the barogram text (see below).

In order not to set off an alarm in case of safely carried out ridge flying, such trajectory points will not be taken
into account if it is possible to go back above the minimum height by deviating from terrain along the line of
greatest slope for 1km or less
CN: MPT — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/

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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:21 pm

Hello!
First - thank you, Marc, for clearing it - so the question is still open. Please comment. :)

We're after Day 1. It was tough - for me, very. Assume I did smthn very wrong. Will try to find what. ;)
Congrats to Erik (EP) in Jonker and Frank (O9) in Ventus for their awesome performance +2 mCR.
Helmut (F9) was next [but he is flying HC (hors concours)] - so 3rd - very close is Paul (57). CGR gents.

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18580


SCI stats - as usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_D1.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.

If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.

See you at Day 2
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:30 am

Hello!
We're after AAT at Day 2. It was not easy. Seems like taking DG from our hangars was good idea. Some did it. :)
(Except you're perfect at maths to dump proper amount of water and have perfect skill for thermaling as Erik and Helmut).

BTW There is a great app to make all these calculations for us, called ShowGliderDat 1.5,
TBH I am not understanding most of the things this tool can show us. ;) I wish I could.

ShowGliderDat presents the data of soaring planes. It shows a lot of diagrams and contains two tools, a ballast calculator and a flight planner. The data used by this program are approximations to the speed polars of the Condor flight simulator.

To download, look at bottom of https://virtualsoaring.eu/download


Congrats to Erik (EP) in Jonker and Helmut (F9) in Ventus, but also Paul (57) and Robin (RAM) in DG808.
FYI: Helmut (F9) is flying HC (hors concours)] - so 3rd - as race before - is Paul (57). CGR gents.

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18581


SCI stats - as usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_D2.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.
If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.

Note:
Some columns are related to polar/wing loading. Due to ballast dump, some values may be not the real one in table above.
F9 note about SCI stats after water dump [from similar thread]:
[...] many pilots dump water. This changes the speed polar. The calculation of Vmet in SCI based upon the water at the start (pilot enters game). Most will start with full ballast and dump water during flight. That means, Vmet calculated by SCI is not precise in this case. Dumping water increases sink (if speed is greater than speed at best glide number). Therefore, the Vmet (by SCI) becomes smaller and maybe negative. If you know, at what time the pilot has dumped how much water, you can go to 'Flight Datas' (Menu of SCI), select the track (red, blue or green) and click on the 'Water' button. Here you can correct the water, which is on board. Then SCI makes all Vmet and DeltaGN calculation with this value. Btw you can look for the Vmet/DeltaGN values for every leg and data section. The most precise value you get from the data section calculation. Leg and summery calculations are only averages from the data section calculations.


Top three flights of yesterday. Notice how Erik used those low ridges.
(I was trying that too, but with less success and my thermaling was too poor again.) :)

Click to enlarge
SCI_flights_D2.jpg

See you at Day 3 (not an AAT)
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by 6266 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 am

Thanks again for that very nice task and all the organization around it. I would like to say something about AAT tasks.

When I came to Condor last year I thought I wouldn't like these modern stuff, but after now three online AATs I have to say, that this is very good, especially for the slower ones like me.

In the beginning of my multiplayer flying I was happy in a normal race to reach TP1 before the winner finished. Kind people who waited for me at the finish had to wait very long. (One time the server was shut down after I had passed TP2, that's absolute ok - finished offline, but it's a little bit frustrating too)

In an AAT that's different. Because of the minimum time it can happen that nearly all are finishing at approximately the same time. So you are not feeling as the looser who cames home hours later, no you are an equal part of the game. Finding myself near the bottom of the result list later is not a problem, because I know what I'm able to do and what not.

On yesterdays task you could fly between 112 and 265 kilometers in 1:45, that's an average speed between 64 and 151 km/h, if you need 2 hours you are in time home too, average 56 km/h, in an 18 m plane. A newbee who can finish a task would be able to do that. Of course you can outland, but that happens in a normal task too.

So I can recommend all to try an AAT task!


To the results: There is a difference between CC and SCI. In CC JAZ has a speed of 94,96, I have 94,90, in SCI he has 96,4 and I have 96,7. The rank is not important for me, I'm happy with the result nevertheless, because I had a fun task, but it's a little bit strange ...

Can't wait for the next AAT, have seen that the next one on WCC is a normal race. There will be waiting time again ... ;-)
P. Klett / PK6
Flat_Land_Club: Informations and anonymized results on http://www.baleit.no/flc.nsf

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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 pm

Hello and thanks for post!
I am big fan of AATs too. Aas they say: no mater of skills - all waste same time. ;)
This is actually good for slower pilots and gives possibility to make difficult weather tasks.
Next AAT at Day 4 (RL 2018 02 24).

6266 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 am

(One time the server was shut down after I had passed TP2, that's absolute ok - finished offline, but it's a little bit frustrating too)

During CC series? If yes, it was server error or so. For sure not on purpose, we're waiting rather as you noticed. :)

6266 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 am

To the results: There is a difference between CC and SCI. In CC JAZ has a speed of 94,96, I have 94,90, in SCI he has 96,4 and I have 96,7. The rank is not important for me, I'm happy with the result nevertheless, because I had a fun task, but it's a little bit strange

It was discussed before, look this and next posts please:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20335#p174498
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by 6266 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:55 pm

Pit_R wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 pm
6266 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 am

(One time the server was shut down after I had passed TP2, that's absolute ok - finished offline, but it's a little bit frustrating too)
During CC series? If yes, it was server error or so. For sure not on purpose, we're waiting rather as you noticed. :)
No, it was not on a series from you, and I was asked if they could do it
Pit_R wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 pm
6266 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 am

To the results: There is a difference between CC and SCI. In CC JAZ has a speed of 94,96, I have 94,90, in SCI he has 96,4 and I have 96,7. The rank is not important for me, I'm happy with the result nevertheless, because I had a fun task, but it's a little bit strange
It was discussed before, look this and next posts please:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20335#p174498
Ah, yes thanks, I now remember that discussion. Good to know that CC has the correct result, and SCI isn't less valuable with this small difference
P. Klett / PK6
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:19 pm

Hello!

Congrats to Frank (O9) in Ventus and Helmut (F9) in Jonker this time [F9 flying HC (hors concours)], so Erik (EP) is 2nd, and... 3rd - again! - is Paul (57). Top 4 with huge 10 min. advantage! CGR gents. Well done in this not easy task.

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/besttimes/0/?id=18582

Overall after three days:
https://www.condor.club/comp/globalscore/211/?&id=586

1st Erik / 2nd Paul / 3rd Robin / 4th Jon / 5th Frank

BTW: Big success - 20 pilots was flying at least one task. ;)


Some useful data...

SCI stats - as usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_D3.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.
If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.

Top three flights of yesterday.

Click to enlarge
SCI_flights_D3.jpg


Curio:
pts_d3.png


See you at Day 4 (1 h 45 min AAT)
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:30 pm

Hello!
Sorry for delay - RL affairs...

Congrats to Erik, Frank, Helmut (HC) and Kuba! CGR gents. Well done in another not the easiest task.

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/showtask/208/?id=18583

Overall after four days:
https://www.condor.club/comp/globalscore/211/?&id=586


Some data...

SCI stats - as usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_D4.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.
If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.



Top three flights of Thu. Notice their min. altitude during flight... ;)

Click to enlarge
SCI_flights_D4.jpg


See you at Day 5
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by Pit_R » Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:28 pm

Hello!

Congrats to Erik, Paul and Jon.
CGR gents! Well done on this very ridge task.
BTW It is a little strange, at this moment, I don't need to mention that Helmut is flying hors concours. ;)

Results at cc:
https://www.condor.club/comp/showtask/208/?id=18584

Overall after five days is same as on D5 task, no surprise: ;) Erik, Paul and Jon. CGR!
https://www.condor.club/comp/globalscore/211/?&id=586


Some data...

SCI stats - as usually: FTRs > CoFliCo > IGCs > SCI 2.63b Click to enlarge
WCC_D5.jpg
mCR: average climb rate in m/s for the task | mGN: mean gliding number (gliding number without influence of wind) | mIAS: mean indicated airspeed
(the speed you see on your speedometer, the real speed is higher depending on the altitude) | nLift: number of lifts | DeltaGN: additional gliding number
(difference between mGN and GN of speed polar) | Vmet: average of rising and sinking air | AltLift: average climbed in a lift | Detour: Detour in percent,
only gliding passages are regarded.
If someone would like to have all ftrs to refly with ghosts or igcs for deeper analyse etc. Drop me a msg.



Top three flights of Thu. Notice Paul saving after TP and than early ridge jump...

Click to enlarge
SCI_flights_D5.jpg


As curio - csv results:
csv_d5.png

See you at Day 6
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Re: WCC :: Waipukurau Condor Competitions :: 18 m Class, June 3rd - July 22nd

Post by 6266 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:34 pm

Thanks Pit again for the statistics, that helps a lot to get better step by step.

A very special thank to Helmut, he helped me analyzing the day 5 where I had a very bad Vmet. After all the discussion I did a test now with a very clear result, I will share it here. Maybe I'm not the only one who didn't knew that.

The situation was that I dropped all ballast early in the race, I remembered that there was something with the flapring and the ballast, but hadn't thought about it before. So I used the flapring like it is. I know now that without ballast the flaps have to be set at lower speed to more negative (sorry for the bad english, hope it will be ok nevertheless).

And now the test: A task 15 km 8 p.m., cloudbase 1000 m, but no clouds, no thermals. Starthight 1500 m, only flying to the finish with the last light, no ballast. Speed constant (as good as I could) 180 km/h, first flight with flaps -1 (flapring for flying with ballast), second flight the same but now with flaps -2 (that I should fly without ballast). See the difference in the Vmet

vmet.png
Next time will be better, maybe ;-)
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