Self launching the ASG32Mi

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Claraflies1
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Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by Claraflies1 » Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:47 am

Any tips to get this glider to self launch properly? I used to find it no problem at all, launched fine. Now I cannot get it to go over 20kt before it starts slaloming down the runway hitting each wingtip on the ground alternately. I don't have enough speed to have control authority and the speed bounces between 0 and 20kt the whole way so it never improves. Can I do anything to stop it doing this? As I say, this is new behaviour, used to just fly so I don't know what I am doing wrong. Thanks
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wickid
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:52 am

Flaps negative helps get aileron authority quicker. The 32 has a steerable tailwheel. So it is very sensitive on the rudder.

Also what airport are you trying at. First try in Slovenia3 as all the airports have been propperly made. Selflaunching doesn't work well if there is no grass or asphalt surface.
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arneh
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:14 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:52 am
The 32 has a steerable tailwheel. So it is very sensitive on the rudder.
Really? It has a retractable tail wheel, and all the real ASG32s I've seen with retractable tail wheel are not steerable. Is that something newer models have? The real flight manual I have makes no mention of steerable tail wheel either...

No matter, the problem is from grass. Grass suddenly catches on the wingtip and turns the glider sharply to the side. It's not just the ASG32, but all self launchers (except Stemme with it's twin main wheels). It's worse offline, as then you start with a wing down, so if it catches before you can get the wing up then the start is doomed.
In real life these self launchers have wing tip wheels which very rarely should catch on grass like this, unless it's very high grass.

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wickid
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:12 am

arneh wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:14 am
wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:52 am
The 32 has a steerable tailwheel. So it is very sensitive on the rudder.
Really? It has a retractable tail wheel, and all the real ASG32s I've seen with retractable tail wheel are not steerable. Is that something newer models have? The real flight manual I have makes no mention of steerable tail wheel either...
Yep it is retractable and steerable. It is on the bottom right side of the ASG32Mi page on the schleicher website. They also mention it in this video at 24 sec:

https://youtu.be/NJI4hqKmj04?si=QHjJURQTCFbBnryY

It should have tipwheels physics set in the model. I will check that. The height of the grass in Condor3 does affect how bad a tip catches.
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arneh
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:34 am

wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:52 am
Yep it is retractable and steerable. It is on the bottom right side of the ASG32Mi page on the schleicher website. They also mention it in this video at 24 sec:

https://youtu.be/NJI4hqKmj04?si=QHjJURQTCFbBnryY

It should have tipwheels physics set in the model. I will check that. The height of the grass in Condor3 does affect how bad a tip catches.
Ok, seems it might be steerable. Seems not to be very effective in that case, as I've been having a horrible time trying to steer it while taxing.

Anyway, that's not what is causing these problems, as it turns toward the dragging wing no matter what you do with the pedals, and it affects all self launchers, not just the the ASG 32.

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wickid
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:28 am

arneh wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:34 am
Ok, seems it might be steerable. Seems not to be very effective in that case, as I've been having a horrible time trying to steer it while taxing.

Anyway, that's not what is causing these problems, as it turns toward the dragging wing no matter what you do with the pedals, and it affects all self launchers, not just the the ASG 32.
Chris and I checked. It has steerable tailwheel and tipwheels enabled. I also tried to selflaunch from Postonja (grass runway) and it launched just fine using the technique from the manual. Using flaps 2 for the initial ground roll I could use the rudder to keep straight while accelerating and lift the wing without issue.
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LeNinjaHD
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by LeNinjaHD » Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:38 am

While on the subject:

Is there a trick to launching the EB29? When accelerating the wings start wobbling heavily and eventually hitting the ground. Could you make them a bit stiffee‘

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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:37 pm

wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:28 am
Chris and I checked. It has steerable tailwheel and tipwheels enabled. I also tried to selflaunch from Postonja (grass runway) and it launched just fine using the technique from the manual. Using flaps 2 for the initial ground roll I could use the rudder to keep straight while accelerating and lift the wing without issue.
It does go ok sometimes, but way too often a wingtip will catch and throw the glider around. Might be worse on some airfields too... So try several times.
Did you try taxiing and, doing a 180 degree turn? I have a hard time doing that, particularly if there is any wind. It should be fairly easy to do in a glider with steerable tailwheel.

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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by OXO » Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:09 pm

I think if you have airbrakes open the ailerons are more effective
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wickid
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:00 pm

arneh wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:37 pm
It does go ok sometimes, but way too often a wingtip will catch and throw the glider around. Might be worse on some airfields too... So try several times.
Did you try taxiing and, doing a 180 degree turn? I have a hard time doing that, particularly if there is any wind. It should be fairly easy to do in a glider with steerable tailwheel.
Don't taxi too fast. I'm able to drive around Lesce Bled, both on asphalt and on grass with both the ASG32Mi and the DG808C. 180 degree turns are no issue. Only if you go too fast with the wing in the grass it will start to catch. I tried with 40 kph crosswind.

If you don't believe me I'm happy to show you on a multiplayer server that it is possible.
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arneh
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:51 pm

wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:00 pm
Don't taxi too fast. I'm able to drive around Lesce Bled, both on asphalt and on grass with both the ASG32Mi and the DG808C. 180 degree turns are no issue. Only if you go too fast with the wing in the grass it will start to catch. I tried with 40 kph crosswind.

If you don't believe me I'm happy to show you on a multiplayer server that it is possible.
Ok, I will test some more to see where the problem is now that I have more information. Maybe it's airport specific.
Have you tried self launching the EB29 on grass, if the wingtip starts on the ground? Seem to remember the MiniLAK also was quite problematic, possibly because of slow acceleration. But will test some more when I get home, and try to figure out more what is causing the most problems.

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wickid
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:01 pm

arneh wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:51 pm
wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:00 pm
Don't taxi too fast. I'm able to drive around Lesce Bled, both on asphalt and on grass with both the ASG32Mi and the DG808C. 180 degree turns are no issue. Only if you go too fast with the wing in the grass it will start to catch. I tried with 40 kph crosswind.

If you don't believe me I'm happy to show you on a multiplayer server that it is possible.
Ok, I will test some more to see where the problem is now that I have more information. Maybe it's airport specific.
Have you tried self launching the EB29 on grass, if the wingtip starts on the ground? Seem to remember the MiniLAK also was quite problematic, possibly because of slow acceleration. But will test some more when I get home, and try to figure out more what is causing the most problems.
IRL the EB29's usually start with a wingrunner when selflaunching. They are not really made to taxi and takeoff with a wing on the ground.
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arneh
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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:19 pm

wickid wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:01 pm
IRL the EB29's usually start with a wingrunner when selflaunching. They are not really made to taxi and takeoff with a wing on the ground.
Could we get a wing runner in Condor? :-) That would probably help a lot. Could just be an option on the ESC menu, like ready for tow -> ready for self launch.

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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by arneh » Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 pm

I've tried some more to replicate the problem now, and it's not as easy to get into this situation as I first thought :-) It might be airport specific, and require a bit rougher conditions.

When I did get a good demonstration it was on an AA3 airport (Gorizia). And with some crosswind from the side of the high wing. That made the low wing take longer to be raised, and eventually the was slowed enough that the glider started turning towards that wing. That actually raised the wing fairly rapidly, and the other wing would then touch the ground. And then it got into this strange condition where it would rapidly throw its nose from side to side and knocking wingtips into the ground from side to side.

That does not seem realistic to me, never seen a glider do that even if it gets a wingtip into the ground. If a wingtip catches on that violently, I would expect glider to ground loop, not violently swing back and forth like that.

Here is replay to demonstrate: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HD-VWO ... sp=sharing
Not claiming this was a faultless performance from my side either, but still the behaviour seems very strange.

Seems I will be flying an ASG-32Mi in real life again in a couple of months, so let's see if it does that :-D

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Re: Self launching the ASG32Mi

Post by wickid » Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pm

arneh wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 pm
When I did get a good demonstration it was on an AA3 airport (Gorizia). And with some crosswind from the side of the high wing. That made the low wing take longer to be raised, and eventually the was slowed enough that the glider started turning towards that wing. That actually raised the wing fairly rapidly, and the other wing would then touch the ground. And then it got into this strange condition where it would rapidly throw its nose from side to side and knocking wingtips into the ground from side to side.
Gorizia is an airport without ground surface object. Then Condor assumes 100% rough ground. The airport should be remade. It is not suitable for selflaunching.

Demonstrated Crosswind limit is 25 kph. I tried with this crosswind set at 50 kph (050/50 kph) at Lesce bled runway 32 with the situation you described (left wing down). It launches fine. Even from the tall grass next to runway 32.
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