EVERYBODY - READ THIS *** VSYNC *** (UPDATED)

[Pit_R]

The other issue that was encountered in Condor2 as well, and may happen in Condor3: People would report a constant negative netto with very high framerates compared to the monitor refresh rate. This also has to do with the physics calculations being done for every frame, but the glider not moving between frames.

Thanks for this explanation. I have had this at the beginning with my (in that days (2021?)) new laptop. Pit-R was a very big helper and supporter in that time. After reducing the frequency to 80 in nvidia and activating vsync in Condor it was gone. But it was a nightmare, when the Ventus became a Grunau Baby in final glide.

Now I have a theory that explains it. And I have set the frequency to 80 for C3 too now, hope to experience that never again ...

Glad to helped. Credits goes to Helmut (F9), he discovered this coincidence.
BTW: I guess sinkbug related to fps is more common than people may think. And probably can be missed during common fast ridge races with Vne FGs, etc.
Hoped C3 will be sinkbug free, but seems not and C3 is even more fragile for that [breaking ropes during tow]. (In C2 sinkbug growth with time.)
So - asking for turning on Vsync is good idea. IMHO: Worth to set it as default in installer (and make it hard to easy disable).

[ryanwoodie]

RECOMMENDATIONS

1 - On flat screens, use "Fullscreen emulation" rather than "Fullscreen"

Suggestion: the recommendation in the first post should perhaps instruct to set Windows display scaling to 100%, or to set in Condor.exe properties/compatibility settings for High DPI scaling to be managed "by application. Otherwise, as JanJansen pointed out, performance and image quality is degraded.

https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/vi ... 45#p187564

[Lenticular]

What I think the rope issue is (But only Uros knows for sure):

The tow rope breaking has to do with the physics being calculated every frame, but the glider not moving when the frame is not displayed by the monitor. So when the glider gets pulled by the rope and there are 3 frames being calculated but not displayed, the stress in the rope builds up when the physics are calculated but the glider doesn't move. This breaks the rope.

The other issue that was encountered in Condor2 as well, and may happen in Condor3: People would report a constant negative netto with very high framerates compared to the monitor refresh rate. This also has to do with the physics calculations being done for every frame, but the glider not moving between frames.

Because we (as the betateam) don't know for sure all the internal calculations we recommend limiting the framerate to the monitor refresh rate so the physics calculations are in synch with what is happening on screen. This is also reflected in the manual.

I don't see any of the above problems in C2 or C3. I get 600 FPS.

What I have found to cause the issue is the scenery. With certain sceneries, all is well; with others, I get tow rope break 100% of the time.

The solution? I deleted the busted scenery. If the tow rope can't work reliably, I can't assume anything else will.

I have never seen the negative netto thing.

All the people with issues in this thread are running G-Sync or Freesync monitors. I have neither - just a boring 60 Hz 4K TV connected via HDMI.

Are people with problems using HDMI or DP? I strongly suspect there is something else that is being overlooked.

[6266]

I have never seen the negative netto thing.

All the people with issues in this thread are running G-Sync or Freesync monitors.

I have really seen the negative netto thing and I only use the laptop screen. The problem was gone with vsync. I remember minimum two others here in forum the last years having that issue asking for help, and vsync was the solution too.

[Lenticular]

I have never seen the negative netto thing.

All the people with issues in this thread are running G-Sync or Freesync monitors.

I have really seen the negative netto thing and I only use the laptop screen. The problem was gone with vsync. I remember minimum two others here in forum the last years having that issue asking for help, and vsync was the solution too.

It is very strange. I can't understand what could be waiting for the video blanking signal (VSYNC) that would upset anything else in Condor.

I personally do not think this is the problem. I think VSYNC is causing some other side-effect which is masking the real culprit.

If this was genuinely a high frame rate/no VSYNC issue, everyone would be seeing it, but we're not. I have never had this issue across two versions of Condor and multiple updates.

I don't have problems with other games, either.

That is not to say I do not see this issue: I get this problem on SPECIFIC add-on scenery. I get it 100% of the time with Truckee 2.2 scenery converted from Condor 2 to 3. I deleted the scenery.

I do NOT see this issue with:

* AA3
* UK3
* Slovenia 3
* CA 1.1 (2->3)
* Nephi 2.1802 (2->3)

I have yet to test other scenery.

[janjansen]

It is very strange. I can't understand what could be waiting for the video blanking signal (VSYNC) that would upset anything else in Condor.

I personally do not think this is the problem. I think VSYNC is causing some other side-effect which is masking the real culprit.

It definitely has something to do with frame/refresh rates, wiek already explained why:

https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/vi ... 15#p188344

This is not the fault of sceneries, and I have it on slovenia with the attached FPL.

from my testing the exact manifestation seems a little more nuanced than just high frame rates causing the issue and v-sync always solving it, but a relation is obvious. Feel free try the attached flight plan, with v-sync disabled. If you do not get the break issue, try playing around with resolution/msaa settings so that you get around 200FPS if you can get that low or high. If you have much higher framerates, try enabling max frame rate in nvidia control panel and setting to ~190-200 as I havent tested higher FPS. Its 100% reproducible on my system with my settings, >180 FPS breaks the rope each and every time, <170 never, regardless if I reduce FPS by using v-sync, frame rate limiter or just high graphi settings (this is with a 60Hz monitor. with a 75Hz monitor it keeps breaking no matter what)

[jcomm]

As I've posted above in my settings, and I will fly that task when possible (only later today), I have:

- VSync OFF in Condor;
- Vsync OFF in NCP;
- RivaTunner with fps limited to 30, or 60...

No problems here. Rig in my sig.

[6266]

It is very strange. I can't understand what could be waiting for the video blanking signal (VSYNC) that would upset anything else in Condor.

I personally do not think this is the problem. I think VSYNC is causing some other side-effect which is masking the real culprit.

If this was genuinely a high frame rate/no VSYNC issue, everyone would be seeing it, but we're not. I have never had this issue across two versions of Condor and multiple updates.

Good for you that you don't have a problem with that, because if you have it, you will be very frustrated.

Let me replay the worst flight I have had with that problem. It was one of Pit-Rs events (very nice ones), I think it was in Matamata. After the flight I compared my track with the track of a fast one (maybe the winner or the second one), we both used the same plane, Ventus3-18. I crossed the start line five minutes before him, at round about 80 % of the distance I was together with him in the same lift, he was maybe 200 m below me. Then he left the lift and flew straight to the finish. I needed 3 more lifts to finish and arrived 15 minutes later. If I didn't had that problem I would minimum be able to fly nearly as fast as he to the finish. I can't be so bad, that I loose maybe 3 minutes (5 minutes but 200 m more height) in the first 80 % but 15 minutes in the last 20 % only cruising home. And if the ball on the pda shows you are high enough to finish, but it's moving all the time up (or down, I don't remember, haven't used it the last 3 years), and you go down with MC again and again but finally need lifts again to finish, then it's not my skill, like someone dared to say, but a very frustrating problem outside my responsibility.

It was the moment where I was thinking about deleting Condor from my machine. With vsync on I came out of that deep valley, but changed everything and only do what I really like now

Here another one who have had that problem, and I remember one more, but don't want to search for that thread

https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/vi ... 29&t=21012

[Bre901]

It definitely has something to do with frame/refresh rates, wiek already explained why:

https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/vi ... 15#p188344

This is not the fault of sceneries, and I have it on slovenia with the attached FPL.

from my testing the exact manifestation seems a little more nuanced than just high frame rates causing the issue and v-sync always solving it, but a relation is obvious. Feel free try the attached flight plan, with v-sync disabled. If you do not get the break issue, try playing around with resolution/msaa settings so that you get around 200FPS if you can get that low or high. If you have much higher framerates, try enabling max frame rate in nvidia control panel and setting to ~190-200 as I havent tested higher FPS. Its 100% reproducible on my system with my settings, >180 FPS breaks the rope each and every time, <170 never, regardless if I reduce FPS by using v-sync, frame rate limiter or just high graphi settings (this is with a 60Hz monitor. with a 75Hz monitor it keeps breaking no matter what)

I can confirm that:
with that FPL, if I tweak the graphics settings in order to have FPS > 180 (VSync OFF), the towrope breaks, below it does not, 2 tests : ~120FPS (VSync OFF) and 60FPS (VSync)

[janjansen]

I can confirm that:
with that FPL, if I tweak the graphics settings in order to have FPS > 180, the towrope breaks, below it does not (test @120FPS and with VSync ON)

Im not sure what you are saying. Did you mean 120Hz? So you have this problem with v-sync on (and thus "120FPS") when you tune your settings so you would get >180FPS without vsync, is that it ?

[Bre901]

that was one test @120 FPS with VSync off, and another one with VSync on
I have edited my post accordingly

[jcomm]

I believe (I can be wrong...) I read somewhere that the simulation cycle frequency has been increased in C3 (?)

I think this all "physics" impact due to higher FPS might be due to some "bug" in the implementation.

Anyway, I always become puzzled by simmers looking for more than 30 FPS ... Unless VR really requires it - I don't know because I dopn't use VR and I seriously don't expect to...

30 FPS using RivaTunner, given my monitor is a vanilla 60 Hz, is good enough for me, and never puts either my Ryzen 5600x CPU or RTX 3060Ti to stress.

At most I would try setting it to 60 FPS, but honestly, I don't see the advantage...

[janjansen]

A solid fixed 30 FPS on a 60Hz screen is probably better than a variable frame rate between 31-55 FPS (unless you have a variable refresh rate monitor). However, the difference between solid 30 and solid 60 is easily noticeable particularly when using a headtracker where you constantly pan around and often quickly. Maybe this video can show you the difference (particular the panning scenes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPGrwrcQ-Q

VR makes this issue 10x more important and too low frame/refresh rate is nauseating.

[Bre901]

A solid fixed 30 FPS on a 60Hz screen is probably better than a variable frame rate between 31-55 FPS (unless you have a variable refresh rate monitor). However, the difference between solid 30 and solid 60 is easily noticeable particularly when using a headtracker where you constantly pan around and often quickly. Maybe this video can show you the difference (particular the panning scenes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPGrwrcQ-Q

VR makes this issue 10x more important and too low frame/refresh rate is nauseating.

I confirm that, when the FPS drop below 45-50FPS it becomes rather unpleasant (TrackIR - VSync ON - monitor @60Hz)

[Lenticular]

Much ignorance about performance - you want the physics to run as fast as possible, always.

Condor is really fast - and needs to remain so.

There is so much rubbish written about "30 Hz" and "limit of the eye" - it's crap. You most certainly can tell (and feel) the difference between 30 Hz and 90 Hz update rates, even if your monitor can "only" draw at 60 Hz.