Feature request: more UDP data for custom FFB

[janjansen]

Rationale: Im fortunate enough to have received a VPforce Rhino FFB stick. Rhino supports Direct Input force API, so it "just works" with condor, but condor FFB is clearly tuned for the MS FFB2, which is/was basically the only FFB stick worth having until recently; given that this stick, and the FFBeast (another very similar new high end FFB stick) is so much more accurate and powerful than a MS FFB2, much of the magic happens when you use the opensource TelemFFB app which reads API or telemetry data from a flight sim to implement, augment or tweak force feedback effects.

I thought most of this was a little gimmicky, until I actually tried it, and though many of the effects are subtle, its impressive how much immersion it adds when you feel engine rumble, gear dropping or the effect of actuators, spoilers, elevator droop on the ground etc. I tried it in DCS and MSFS202, which has no native FFB support at all, and the effect and added immersion is just amazing.

Rhino kits are also used to build rudder pedals, which can be interesting for cockpit builders; Ive seen on Rhino discord at least one UK gliding club is building condor sims with rhinos, but to implement rudders, requires a source of FFB data.

TelemFFB developers are willing to support Condor, but currently not enough data is available through UDP to make it worth the effort. Whats particularly missing is:

* Plane type
* AoA
* Position of all moving surfaces (aileron, elevator, rudder, airbrake) and gear
* for turbo/self launch: position of motor extraction and RPM

For other sims they also need atmospheric data to calculate forces on the stick, but I think condor uses standard atmosphere only and altitude is all they would need? This is probably also more of a concern with jets than gliders and stick centering forces from condor work pretty well anyhow.

Im sure this can wait until after V3 is released and the condor team has had a looong relaxing gliding (or skiing) holiday and maybe Marc has some requests of his own, so we could bundle it here.

[mjehee@gmail.com]

Any news on this topic. I think this is very interesting.
I build a FFbeast ffb stick (https://ffbeast.github.io/). And it works quite well, there are however a few issues with the directx. The periodic effects are causing the whole thing to shake like mad:)
The developer is using the telemetry data to add effects. He asked if we like to add effects based based on the telemetry.
I gave him my opinion:
1. Turbulence We had a leg with turbulence. it would be nice to have an effect for this.
2. Thermal effect. When you see one wing going up it would be nice to feel it as well. This would IMO be the most important thing to model, as this is the key thing to "feel" for during a glider flight. I dont know how to create this from the telemetry or if this is even possible.
3. Flutter, this is suppose to work with directx but is masked by the issue from periodic effects
4. Release, from the cable.

The developer is willing to work on it. If someone from the Condor development team work with him we can make it much better (but it is cool already:) I am often at Terlet I can bring the joystick for testing if that would help.

[Vertigo]

The periodic effects are causing the whole thing to shake like mad:)

VPForce software lets you configure gains and limits for various effects

and has multiple configurable low pass and notch filters that you can apply to those effects to prevent the stick from breaking your wrists or getting in some self reinforcing oscillation. I assume FFBeast has those too somewhere. FWIW, these are mine

1. Turbulence We had a leg with turbulence. it would be nice to have an effect for this.
2. Thermal effect. When you see one wing going up it would be nice to feel it as well.

I do not believe in reality you feel this in your stick, or at least I dont remember you did. A thermal (or turbulence) will lift a wing, as it does in C3, and you feel the acceleration and gyroscopic effect, which you cant feel in condor unless you have a motion rig, but it will have little to no effect on the stick besides the force you have to apply to counter the movement. IOW, if you were to close your eyes, you would feel the thermal in your butt and your inner ear, not your hand. I find thermals with FFB actually quite convincing in C3 and its usually easy to tell if its to the left or right.

Turbulence does affect your stick somewhat. Try it on the ground, set a strong wind with turbulence and your stick will move. Not a whole lot, but again, I think this is fairly accurate, turbulence affects the whole plane, it doesnt do much to control surfaces.

[mjehee@gmail.com]

Thanks, the settings for FFbeast are setup a little different. I can setup the controller (setup1 and setup2), this updates the settings in the firmware. And there is a commander program, if this runs it overrides the settings in the firmware and allows to set effects (commander). I added a few examples but there are many screens. I dont believe I can set a filter, but I forwarded the information to the developer, so I hope we can solve the shaking.
With regards to effects of thermal's, I agree that is already nice in condor, you can see the screen moving. I also think you are right that IRL you only fleet it on the plane and some acceleration, but not completely sure if you do not feel a little in the aileron as well.
Still I do be leave that it would be nice that we could simulate a bit of this effect on the stick (as I don't have a motion rig:), I think if the left wing lifts a little push on the stick to the right would work to imitate the real life feeling (but it needs to be really subtle). If we have the telemetry data I think the developer can try to make this effect. Curious to what you think? See below the telemetry data do you have any idea which parameter will give this info.
time=12.0029779457222
airspeed=26.6220722198486
altitude=1509.57104492188
vario=0
evario=0.0400639623403549
nettovario=1.10951280593872
integrator=2.40861845016479
compass=143
slipball=0
turnrate=0
yawstringangle=-0.0257919505238533
radiofrequency=123.5
yaw=2.49582076072693
pitch=0
bank=0
quaternionx=0
quaterniony=0
quaternionz=0.894934415817261
quaternionw=0.446197718381882
ax=0
ay=0
az=0
vx=-15.0453767776489
vy=-19.9658870697021
vz=0
rollrate=-0.0286905076354742
pitchrate=0
yawrate=0
gforce=1.17166190580004
height=1010
wheelheight=1008.97998046875
turbulencestrength=0.371560782194138
surfaceroughness=0
MC=0

[Vertigo]

Reducing periodic effect for elevator (screenshot only shows for aileron) should solve the "shaking" issue if stall effects are too violent.

As for reading the thermal/turbulence from the UDP data; not sure if its possible, definately above my paygrade, but if it were possible, it would be borderline a cheat.

BTW, you seem to be using C2? The way turbulence and thermals affect the airplane is massively improved in C3.