Can my player character be a woman?

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6266
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by 6266 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:46 pm

All the posts were meant to show, why

"Just change the texture"

is no way. If it would be possible, it was a nice solution.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by OXO » Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:49 pm

Kaibeth wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:30 pm
Well, Chris, now it's safe to do so. *laughs*

Doubt 🤨
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Kaibeth
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kaibeth » Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:10 pm

You're probably right. I just have thicker-than-usual skin.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Avelina » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:31 pm

OXO wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:10 am
TEMPEST114 wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:27 am
Rewrite animation?! Just change the texture.

Typical male bias from the developer I see. Just as well I haven’t wasted my money on supporting sexism.

Don't be ridiculous. ... only a few users who would ever use it. ...
Perhaps you should stop being ridiculous. A quick search tells me nearly half the world population is female. But you say adding the option to condor will only be used by a few people? Even if that's true, what are you basing your assumption off of?

Why is "work" the excuse for not improving the user experience of your sim? It's not like you need to be constantly making new pilot models. Make the improvement once, and you won't need to put in the work again until another major update.

So far as I can tell, there is no method that condor uses to track pilot gender, and I haven't seen any surveys either. It seems pretty clear to me that you are either guessing based on vague and incomplete data, you have access to data I don't, or you want to limit the choices users have because you don't care if female pilots are counted. Odds are there are already more women here than you realize.

If you don't want to put in the work for a female pilot model, fine, but give me the menu option to set my gender correctly and hide the male pilot model. Then the option is at least there enough for pilots who aren't men to have ghost representation.

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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by wickid » Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:17 pm

Avelina wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:31 pm
Why is "work" the excuse for not improving the user experience of your sim? It's not like you need to be constantly making new pilot models. Make the improvement once, and you won't need to put in the work again until another major update.
Because there are only a hand full of people doing all the work in our spare time next to full time jobs and family.

As I said before it would take me at least a couple of months to redo all the animations of all the planes. It is not like I can copy and paste them between planes. Every aircraft has it's own bespoke set of animations. I rather spent my time on improving the sim for all users. I know there are woman in gliding, and if I had the time I would gladly add a woman character for you. It is just that the development resources are limited and choices have to be made as OXO said.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by 6266 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:52 am

I would like to understand the problem. Condor is a simulation of gliding, a very good one for not to use the word "perfect".

A good glider simulation has to handle everything about gliding. The behavior of the plane, the weather and so on. I like that there is an animated pilot in the cockpit. Other sims are flying with an empty cockpit, it's ok for a simulation, but it's better with a pilot. If you lower the gear, use the airbrakes, open the water valve and use the joystick at the same time, it doesn't work simultaneously, because you don't have 4 hands IRL. Each operation is animated and needs its time, very close to reality.

But I don't see, that a glider simulation can be used for a personally identification with the animated pilot. There is no part in the sim with a face to face contact to others, I don't even see "myself" while flying. I see the legs in jeans and I see the arms and hands, for sure with a men's wristwatch.

I can't identify myself with the guy in the cockpit. It's a young guy with minimum 30 years less life experience than me. When I was in that age in the last millenium I have had a full beard. No it can't be me and it's not necessary to be me. I am a real person and if I want to see myself, I use a mirror, not the pc, but if I want to do something close to real gliding, I use Condor.

I wish the few develop resources will be used for the real core of the glider simulation, f.x. more planes, long time ago I could add one in my hangar.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kaibeth » Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:31 am

I am in agreement with you, for the most part. I do feel some small identity with the pilot figure in the aircraft, as it is my "avatar" in the simulated world. It would be somewhat nice to feel represented by my avatar.

But, even more important to me is learning to find wave lift so I can finally do my 1,000 km diploma, or learning to centre those razza frakkin narrow thermals in Task A of the Vintage Series.

I would like to think that this conversation could be had with the intellect and poise that has indeed been shown for the most part, and less of the little snips and snipes that we have also seen.

I understand, and respect, that there are limited resources and a very small development staff for this simulator. And I applaud the wonderful job they have done bringing my new-found love for soaring to new heights, literally and figuratively. I understand, and respect, that, as Mister Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Whatever my avatar looks like in the sim, I know that I will continue learning, growing, and thriving in my new hobby.

Thanks to everyone that's been part of that.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kaibeth » Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:14 am

Also, I agree with Avelina that having the option to have the simulator say "K. Beth ripped her wing off" would be nice. :D
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by 6266 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:28 am

Kaibeth wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:14 am
Also, I agree with Avelina that having the option to have the simulator say "K. Beth ripped her wing off" would be nice. :D
Agree too, but I would change the texts to a neutral version, f.x. "K. Beth ripped the wing off", it's less changing in the sim.

I guess it's already done in Condor 3
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kaibeth » Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:34 am

I really like the idea of the neutral pronoun.

Excellent thinking.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Bre901 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:52 am

Very good point
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Kekelekou
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kekelekou » Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:37 pm

"K. Beth's sailplane has just lost its wing" ?

Regarding the pilot's 3d model : is the pilot a skin and bone single object, or are the head, arms, legs separate models which are animated individually ?
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by wickid » Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:56 pm

Head, left arm and torso, right arm and torso and legs are separate meshes but they are weightpainted to the same armature.
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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by ryanto » Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:24 pm

Avelina wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:31 pm
OXO wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:10 am
TEMPEST114 wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:27 am
Rewrite animation?! Just change the texture.

Typical male bias from the developer I see. Just as well I haven’t wasted my money on supporting sexism.

Don't be ridiculous. ... only a few users who would ever use it. ...
Perhaps you should stop being ridiculous. A quick search tells me nearly half the world population is female. But you say adding the option to condor will only be used by a few people? Even if that's true, what are you basing your assumption off of?

Why is "work" the excuse for not improving the user experience of your sim? It's not like you need to be constantly making new pilot models. Make the improvement once, and you won't need to put in the work again until another major update.

So far as I can tell, there is no method that condor uses to track pilot gender, and I haven't seen any surveys either. It seems pretty clear to me that you are either guessing based on vague and incomplete data, you have access to data I don't, or you want to limit the choices users have because you don't care if female pilots are counted. Odds are there are already more women here than you realize.

If you don't want to put in the work for a female pilot model, fine, but give me the menu option to set my gender correctly and hide the male pilot model. Then the option is at least there enough for pilots who aren't men to have ghost representation.
I don't know about this simulation, but at my real life club, there are 2-3 women for a hundred men. I don't know about the ratio of men/women here, but it's obviously <50%. I think the developers will focus on content that will make the majority happy and not just a minority. Same reason they might not release some less popular glider (PW5 for example).

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Re: Can my player character be a woman?

Post by Kekelekou » Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:24 pm

ryanto wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:24 pm
I don't know about this simulation, but at my real life club, there are 2-3 women for a hundred men.
If Condor2 were to really reflect the real life of soaring clubs, it would have featured a ASK-13 from day one and almost noone would fly the JS3. :lol:

Thanks wickid for your answer. Do you use Blender for modelling and animating?
Blender allows for easy attachment of a mesh to another.
So it's possible to attach a longer hair mesh to the existing head without having to reanimate the whole model.
I did pretty much the same for an aerial firefighting refill station for FSX/P3D.

I agree that the chute straps make things more complicated for adding a breast mesh.
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