Condor 3 feature requests

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Luxaly
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Luxaly » Sat May 27, 2023 12:40 pm

Kaibeth wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 11:38 am
Every “gamer” I have shown my simulator has replied with “you don’t shoot anything? What’s the point?”
and then there are some that just like to chill after work... and gliding is perfect... just start set a task or not and fly :) i dont mean that there will be 100k players or so... but i can see something like 5-10k extra copies sold

devs could always put a steam site up and look on interest based on how many whishlisted on steam and maybe have a small demo so someone can see what it is about and then he can wishlist to show his interest (demo should introduce to the game so thermals, ridge etc. will be shown as a "flight shool" )
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Kekelekou
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kekelekou » Sat May 27, 2023 8:11 pm

Regarding Steam :
From what I have gathered, it seems that some coding work is required to make a game/sim Steam-compatible. Given the very limited coding workpower available (Uroš in his sparetime), the Condor team has to balance the pros and cons of "diverting" resources to the Steam integration.
And while I understand the exposure to a much wider audience and possible purchasers (and turnover) that Steam brings, the development time being focused on ingame additional or improved features does look to me as a much better long term investment.
Besides, it would be absolutely legit for the team to put "improve realism/ sim quality" way over "maximise benefits" on their priority list.
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Manx
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Manx » Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:57 pm

Is it possible for C3 to have more punitive measures for the use of the "Q" key, thermal helpers and plane / height recovery options and penalties.
I don't consider it fair that someone who uses the Q key or collects a penalty should be able to beat a pilot who has completed a clean flight.
Clean flights should always beat assisted and penalised flights.
Option 1 could perhaps be a bigger number range for the penalties.
Or option 2 as follows:
Flights could be scored a like in horse jumping competitions, clear flights are scored 1st and then the assisted flights are scored after.
For example: in the results below (I know it's an extreme example) the pilot "B" who has a one point penalty, under the new scoring would be placed below pilot "E", the lowest scored clear flight and above "F" and "G".

20 METRE MULTISEAT CLASS :
POS| POINTS | GLIDER | ID | PILOT | DIST | SPEED | TIME | STATUS | PEN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 | 1000.0 | DuoDiscus | A | AAA | 182 km | 135.7 km/h | 01:20:28 | Finished | 0.0
2 | 978.3 | DuoDiscus | B | BBB | 182 km | 134.3 km/h | 01:21:18 | Finished | 1.0
3 | 940.6 | DuoDiscus | C | CCC | 182 km | 131.7 km/h | 01:22:55 | Finished | 0.0
4 | 879.8 | DuoDiscus | D| DDD | 182 km | 127.6 km/h | 01:25:36 | Finished | 0.0
5 | 719.4 | Arcus | E | EEE | 182 km | 123.9 km/h | 01:28:08 | Finished | 0.0
6 | 610.8 | DuoDiscus | F| FFF | 182 km | 122.9 km/h | 01:28:52 | Finished | 200.0
7 | 544.5 | DuoDiscus | G| GGG | 182 km | 118.4 km/h | 01:32:15 | Finished | 200.0

So the new results would look like this:

20 METRE MULTISEAT CLASS :
POS| POINTS | GLIDER | ID | PILOT | DIST | SPEED | TIME | STATUS | PEN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 | 1000.0 | DuoDiscus | A | AAA | 182 km | 135.7 km/h | 01:20:28 | Finished | 0.0
2 | 940.6 | DuoDiscus | C| CCC | 182 km | 131.7 km/h | 01:22:55 | Finished | 0.0
3 | 879.8 | DuoDiscus | D| DDD | 182 km | 127.6 km/h | 01:25:36 | Finished | 0.0
4 | 719.4 | Arcus | E| EEE | 182 km | 123.9 km/h | 01:28:08 | Finished | 0.0
5 | 978.3 | DuoDiscus | B| BBB | 182 km | 134.3 km/h | 01:21:18 | Finished | 1.0
6 | 610.8 | DuoDiscus | F| FFF | 182 km | 122.9 km/h | 01:28:52 | Finished | 200.0
7 | 544.5 | DuoDiscus | G| GGG | 182 km | 118.4 km/h | 01:32:15 | Finished | 200.0

Thanks for reading.

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wickid
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:57 pm

Manx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:57 pm
Is it possible for C3 to have more punitive measures for the use of the "Q" key, thermal helpers and plane / height recovery options and penalties.
I don't consider it fair that someone who uses the Q key or collects a penalty should be able to beat a pilot who has completed a clean flight.
Clean flights should always beat assisted and penalised flights.
Option 1 could perhaps be a bigger number range for the penalties.
Or option 2 as follows:
Flights could be scored a like in horse jumping competitions, clear flights are scored 1st and then the assisted flights are scored after.
For example: in the results below (I know it's an extreme example) the pilot "B" who has a one point penalty, under the new scoring would be placed below pilot "E", the lowest scored clear flight and above "F" and "G".

thanks for reading.
Condor applies penalty's as in real life gliding competitions. It is the scoring system as used by the FAI during world, continental and many national championships. There are still some types of penalties missing from Condor (finishing low, or too high start G/S for example) that are in the FAI rules. Condor in addition has some Condor specific penalties ones like cloudflying and using the Q key.

In your example, Pilot B has probably had some penalty for cloudflying. The penalty is correctly applied according to the FAI rules.
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6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:46 pm

The main problem here is the Q. In the example result list, the pilots using Q are at the bottom of the list, in both cases. Looks like no problem.

But if a good pilot uses Q there are more consequences.

The fastest pilot comes to the finish but forgot the minimum height, to finish the flight he uses Q. Because he is the fastest, he gets 1000 points - 200 penalties = 800 points.

The second pilot without Q gets f.x. 900 points, because he is slower than the fast one.

The winner doesn't get 1000 points. In a series this can be expensive.

Another slower competitor gets 700 points for his slow but without Q finished flight. He is in the result list on third place, but deserves to be second.

For those penalties not existing IRL (Q, thermalhelpers) it should be possible to set the penalties on a different score (I will call it prio score). And then create a result list like horse jumping, sorted first by prio score, second by score.

Another possibility for the organizers is to prohibit the Q, but I think in more fun and social organized events it's nice to give new pilots an option to fly to the finish. Better pilots shouldn't use it but in practice it's unfortunately not that way ...
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wickid
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:42 pm

6266 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:46 pm
The main problem here is the Q. In the example result list, the pilots using Q are at the bottom of the list, in both cases. Looks like no problem.

But if a good pilot uses Q there are more consequences.

The fastest pilot comes to the finish but forgot the minimum height, to finish the flight he uses Q. Because he is the fastest, he gets 1000 points - 200 penalties = 800 points.

The second pilot without Q gets f.x. 900 points, because he is slower than the fast one.

The winner doesn't get 1000 points. In a series this can be expensive.

Another slower competitor gets 700 points for his slow but without Q finished flight. He is in the result list on third place, but deserves to be second.

For those penalties not existing IRL (Q, thermalhelpers) it should be possible to set the penalties on a different score (I will call it prio score). And then create a result list like horse jumping, sorted first by prio score, second by score.

Another possibility for the organizers is to prohibit the Q, but I think in more fun and social organized events it's nice to give new pilots an option to fly to the finish. Better pilots shouldn't use it but in practice it's unfortunately not that way ...
But if first place guy wasn't low, 3th place guy would still be 3th like he is now... but first place guy got a penalty (deserved, he was low) and didn't get first as a result...

Example from RL: https://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/natio ... 5-27/daily

Guy who was fastest finished low. Penalty dropped him to third. So the winner didn't get the maximum points available (505 in this case) for the day.
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6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:56 pm

Maybe the "too low at finish" example isn't good enough. The some guy could prevent from an early outlanding using Q and finish first, gets his penalties, destroys the 1000 points for the winner and would have been last in the list because of the outlanding. All others with less than 800 points are below him in the list, finishing and not using Q. Not good in my opinion, and demotivating for those trying to finish without Q.

Not really relevant for me, because I don't fly such competitions any longer. One of the reasons is the Q, but I'm always interested in fair and good rules
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wickid
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:09 pm

Im only saying, penalties are applied correctly according to the FAI rules. Q enabled during competition is a tasksetter choice.
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avanspron
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by avanspron » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:07 am

As a task setter I would like the option of "q" only working after a safe landing and the scoring to stop there as they have outlanded.

They can then q up to continue in the fun but there result with be based on distance flown.

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Bre901
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Bre901 » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:15 am

avanspron wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:07 am
As a task setter I would like the option of "q" only working after a safe landing and the scoring to stop there as they have outlanded.

They can then q up to continue in the fun but there result with be based on distance flown.
IMHO no need require a safe landing, we would just need to have the option to make the miracle key work as an engine start for motorgliders = outlanding in the scoring
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Paul_UK » Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:51 pm

Bre901 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:15 am
IMHO no need require a safe landing, we would just need to have the option to make the miracle key work as an engine start for motorgliders = outlanding in the scoring
That is a pretty good idea IMO, I like it. Continue to fly with the group but only score to where you had an issue. Screwed though if you have a mid-air. Though the task setter can still disable height recovery and leave plane recovery active if they wish.
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nicnac211
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by nicnac211 » Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:50 am

I am surprised to not see this already posted (if it was in the 34 earlier pages, apologies) but the concept of JOIN TIME needs to go away. Why can you not join after the join time expires? How punitive is that? At a minimum there should be an option for "decline join after jointime expires" that is OFF by default allowing a player to join a server at any time.

What is the rationale behind the Join -> Wait -> Start cadence? It should go away.

Asynchronous
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Asynchronous » Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:46 pm

I am building a computer system for my son's glider club. It would be nice to know the Condor 3 hardware requirements so I can build to it and not have to make any major component changes after the build. Additionally, SSA has grants for club builds of Condor simulators and it would be unfortunate if a club had under-specced their hardware when Condor 3 comes out.

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Asynchronous » Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:53 pm

The hardware requirements I think may be critical are minimum video card memory amount (8 or 12gb or ?), whether Condor 3 will use Direct X 11 or 12, if there will be any increases in cpu requirements.

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by JLN » Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:44 am

nicnac211 wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:50 am
I am surprised to not see this already posted (if it was in the 34 earlier pages, apologies) but the concept of JOIN TIME needs to go away. Why can you not join after the join time expires? How punitive is that? At a minimum there should be an option for "decline join after jointime expires" that is OFF by default allowing a player to join a server at any time.

What is the rationale behind the Join -> Wait -> Start cadence? It should go away.
I dont understand clearly the concept of no join time especially in multi races competitions.
So, when the server opens I can join when I want. OK. The server opens at 18.15 UTC. 12.00 in condor. As I am not there I or I am sleeping, (or I am in another flight zone) I will join ....when ? In 6 hours or 10 hours (oups the Condor server is at night) or tomorrow ?
So the race will never finish ? untill the next race ? because I can join at any time ?
When the server is opened time starts. To start later in same conditions the server should restart (and I am alone). It is the principle of online tasks.
For online tasks, I prefer looking on the https://www.condorsoaring.com/serverlis ... arch=cndr2 to see if there is somebody flying the task and wait for the arrival of the pilot to start in the conditions defined by the task.

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