Condor 3 feature requests

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wickid
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 am

Pit_R wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:30 am
@wickid: Just thinking loud - if Arcus should easily win in realistic weather, that mean index is not proper, or Arcus is... too good.
As I said we got improved data and the Arcus matches that data exactly. If you have something that proves otherwise, email support with that data.

The index is determined by the DAeC, Condor doesn't change those.
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Pit_R
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Pit_R » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 am

wickid wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 am

If you have something that proves otherwise, email support with that data.

It is not about data - it is about balance...
Before patch this class was unbalanced and after is the same. ;) Let's remember for what are indices.
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arneh
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by arneh » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:52 am

wickid wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 am
As I said we got improved data and the Arcus matches that data exactly. If you have something that proves otherwise, email support with that data.

The index is determined by the DAeC, Condor doesn't change those.
Part of the problem is that in Condor we fly the pure Arcus, which has a max weight of 750 kg, while in real life most Arcuses have a motor, and a max weight of 800 kg. That 50kg extra would make a difference. They still have the same DAeC index, but their IGC index is different (IGC index 1.05 vs 1.04).

Why is not Condor using IGC-index for 20m class when it does for club class? Those are the only two classes which have IGC-index in real life.

alexlee
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by alexlee » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:19 pm

Pit_R wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 am
wickid wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 am

If you have something that proves otherwise, email support with that data.

It is not about data - it is about balance...
Before patch this class was unbalanced and after is the same. ;) Let's remember for what are indices.

This is exactly right.. we did a testflight with our group and had around 20 people connected to test the performance of the Arcus. The Duo Discus was faster than the Arcus. Me and my group all had the same opinion because we‘ve seen that the Duo was passing everyone in higher speeds. And the task was not a ridge task with strong winds. It was a mix between thermals and average ridge. Anyway I flew the Arcus in reallife during a competition and for my taste it is not simulated well.. I respect all the good work and all the developers but that is my opinion.

Besides that with the JS3 and Ventus you made really good job. As well with some other planes I really love to fly !

Best regards,

Alexander

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kestrel_BY » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:55 pm

arneh wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:52 am
Why is not Condor using IGC-index for 20m class when it does for club class? Those are the only two classes which have IGC-index in real life.
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, condor uses Daec index for all classes involving handicaps (Club, 20m MS, Multiclass, School...) while condor.club uses the IGC index.
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BOD1
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by BOD1 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:02 pm

Condor Club was not using IGC index for 20m class, because at time of coding, there was only 1 plane in this class for Condor. Now they are 2, so I'll update my code soon.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by OXO » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:09 pm

alexlee wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:19 pm
Pit_R wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 am
wickid wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 am

If you have something that proves otherwise, email support with that data.

It is not about data - it is about balance...
Before patch this class was unbalanced and after is the same. ;) Let's remember for what are indices.

This is exactly right.. we did a testflight with our group and had around 20 people connected to test the performance of the Arcus. The Duo Discus was faster than the Arcus. Me and my group all had the same opinion because we‘ve seen that the Duo was passing everyone in higher speeds. And the task was not a ridge task with strong winds. It was a mix between thermals and average ridge. Anyway I flew the Arcus in reallife during a competition and for my taste it is not simulated well.. I respect all the good work and all the developers but that is my opinion.

Besides that with the JS3 and Ventus you made really good job. As well with some other planes I really love to fly !

Best regards,

Alexander
Was this with HU22?
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arneh
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by arneh » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:25 pm

BOD1 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:02 pm
Condor Club was not using IGC index for 20m class, because at time of coding, there was only 1 plane in this class for Condor. Now they are 2, so I'll update my code soon.
Ok, great, thanks! :-)

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Paul_UK » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:13 pm

OXO wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:09 pm
alexlee wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:19 pm
Pit_R wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 am



It is not about data - it is about balance...
Before patch this class was unbalanced and after is the same. ;) Let's remember for what are indices.

This is exactly right.. we did a testflight with our group and had around 20 people connected to test the performance of the Arcus. The Duo Discus was faster than the Arcus. Me and my group all had the same opinion because we‘ve seen that the Duo was passing everyone in higher speeds. And the task was not a ridge task with strong winds. It was a mix between thermals and average ridge. Anyway I flew the Arcus in reallife during a competition and for my taste it is not simulated well.. I respect all the good work and all the developers but that is my opinion.

Besides that with the JS3 and Ventus you made really good job. As well with some other planes I really love to fly !

Best regards,

Alexander
Was this with HU22?
I was going to ask the same. Pre HU22 I felt the same however I flew a thermal task, 20m class, in the Arcus after HU22 and my result says it now performs better than the Duo. Can't quantify by how much and not a massive sample size (amount of pilots) but the results below show the Arcus holding it's own now.
20m_results.JPG
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Michael McKay (MJ)
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Michael McKay (MJ) » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:11 am

I may be a bit late with this idea but I'm running into the issue and would like to see it solved as a new feature:
  • Pause and save a flight so that I can restart it later. This would be helpful for long flights that can't be completed in one session. The main issue I have is getting the VR to work again with my headset. I can put the computer to sleep and restart the paused flight but only using the screens - the VR with the goggles is lost. If I could restart at the saved point, the VR initialization would be similar to the start of a flight session.

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Pit_R » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:37 pm

BOD1 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:02 pm
Condor Club was not using IGC index for 20m class, because at time of coding, there was only 1 plane in this class for Condor. Now they are 2, so I'll update my code soon.

Hello!
C-C is using IGC index now - for this class it is small catastrophe. :)
Not mention, It also affects all completed competitions - so maybe some medals should be given again. ;)

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21034#p178071 :
The difference in index is 2.9% vs 6.2%, i.e. more than twice the difference with DAeC index than IGC index.

You can see compared points for one task here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20989#p178106

Well - IMVHO - it is now better to bring back DAeC index for doulbleseatters (also for all finished contest) + allow organizers to choose DAeC or IGC for future competitions.
My 2c
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witor
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by witor » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:45 pm

Changing the handicap coefficients after the competition makes no sense what's so ever. Pilots chose their gliders based on the indexes at that time so why should they be retrospectively penalised? In general law newer works backwards.

Beside all the above this thread is not really a place for discussion about former competitions. If you want to discuss this please start a new topic.

Lets just stick to what people would like to see in C3 and who knows maybe if we come up with something good the developers will think about implementing it - that was the idea behind this topic.

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Paul_UK » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:53 pm

Pit_R wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:37 pm
BOD1 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:02 pm
Condor Club was not using IGC index for 20m class, because at time of coding, there was only 1 plane in this class for Condor. Now they are 2, so I'll update my code soon.

Hello!
C-C is using IGC index now - for this class it is small catastrophe. :)
Not mention, It also affects all completed competitions - so maybe some medals should be given again. ;)

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21034#p178071 :
The difference in index is 2.9% vs 6.2%, i.e. more than twice the difference with DAeC index than IGC index.

You can see compared points for one task here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20989#p178106

Well - IMVHO - it is now better to bring back DAeC index for doulbleseatters (also for all finished contest) + allow organizers to choose DAeC or IGC for future competitions.
My 2c
You kind of get this today anyway. DSHelper will kick out a log file of the results from Condor which is DAEC so you can obtain the DAEC scores from that. Uploading FTR to CC you get the score based on IGC handicap. Just take your pick which you'll use for scoring when you create the comp and note it in the comp info.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by BOD1 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:50 pm

Rahhh...
I released an update on CC: when adding a task, author can choose between DAeC and IGC index for scoring. Existing 20m class tasks have already been set to "use DAeC".
Last edited by BOD1 on Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fox9
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Fox9 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:27 pm

That is a good decision. Thank you.

Fox9

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