Condor 3 feature requests

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Sprunga
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Sprunga » Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:43 am

It's not much extra effort when making a new plane really. When we make the JS5 it will have a jet.
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LeNinjaHD
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by LeNinjaHD » Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:39 pm

Would be cool if the Ventus3 had a Self Launch option.

It would also be cool if you could tow other people online!

Allowing Custom Airplanes as Mods would also be nice!!

Are there any screenshots of Condor3 out yet?

Thanks!

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Kekelekou
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kekelekou » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:16 pm

Re mods : the reason given so far to prevent user-made, not Condor-approved glider mods has always been "this would lead to cheating in competitions".
Well, this sounds somewhat lame to me : a hack file could be created for each Condor approved sailplane (taking 3d, flight model and so on into account) and only sailplanes that pass a hack check test would be allow to compete.
We would get two groups for sailplanes : the Condor-reviewed ones for online competition, and the flying circus for offline or non-competitive online fun. Everyone would be happy.

I am convinced we would have the same diversity and quality for sailplanes as what we have for landscapes.
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wickid
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:30 am

Kekelekou wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:16 pm
Re mods : the reason given so far to prevent user-made, not Condor-approved glider mods has always been "this would lead to cheating in competitions".
Well, this sounds somewhat lame to me : a hack file could be created for each Condor approved sailplane (taking 3d, flight model and so on into account) and only sailplanes that pass a hack check test would be allow to compete.
We would get two groups for sailplanes : the Condor-reviewed ones for online competition, and the flying circus for offline or non-competitive online fun. Everyone would be happy.

I am convinced we would have the same diversity and quality for sailplanes as what we have for landscapes.
Anybody can make 3D models for gliders. The Condor team is more than happy to put any high quality community model into Condor. There are several models that were donated by members of the community. It is just that the flight model is done by the team to ensure realistic, accurate performance and handling. This "hack" check is already done on several files for each plane.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by OXO » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:20 am

Kekelekou wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:16 pm

I am convinced we would have the same diversity and quality for sailplanes as what we have for landscapes.

Actually not. There are very few people with the skills and free time to make planes, In the last 2 years (with only one exception) we have not received any completed glider models well enough made to not require substantial work by our team correcting them. This usually takes more time than making the model ourselves, but we keep supporting this idea.

The modelling team is currently

Wiek "wickid"
Jan Oorthuizen
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:59 am

OXO wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:20 am
There are very few people with the skills and free time to make planes
Thanks a lot to the whole team, your results are amazing.

I have had the idea to try it myself, but I'm not a grafic designer, and I can't believe to come close to the needed quality. So I guess it wouldn't be helpful, but will cost a lot of your time.

Is there a description how to make a plane, like the landscape guides? Only for to see what to do and maybe to confirm, that this is not my place.

I have read what I could find here in the forum, and I know that best is to begin with a towplane.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:32 am

6266 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:59 am
OXO wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:20 am
There are very few people with the skills and free time to make planes
I have had the idea to try it myself, but I'm not a grafic designer, and I can't believe to come close to the needed quality. So I guess it wouldn't be helpful, but will cost a lot of your time.
I wasn't either. I just started learning Wings3D at first. Trying a lot. And eventually after a couple of months I had my first plane. It takes a lot of time and dedication.

If you start now I would recomend learning Blender. It has many more options than Wings3D. There are many tutorials about basic modeling on Youtube to learn the program and get the hang of simple models. Once you got that down you can try your first plane.

You can also contact me on google chat or discord and I can give you some tips and pointers along the way once you start doing your first plane. There are a couple of guys I'm in contact with that are doing their first plane. I don't have the time to do basic modeling lessons though, so at least some understanding of Blender is required before you ask.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:38 am

wickid wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:32 am
You can also contact me on google chat or discord and I can give you some tips and pointers along the way once you start doing your first plane.
Thanks a lot, I will think about it, when I have finished my actual landscape
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by OXO » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:45 am

I have a partly built SZD55 if you or anyone else would like to use it to learn on.

Maybe even take it to completion.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:59 am

OXO wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:45 am
I have a partly built SZD55 if you or anyone would like to use it to learn on.
I will keep it in my mind, but need minimum until June (or longer) to finish the current landscape. More than 400 airports still to do ...
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by OXO » Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:14 pm

That is too many airports. It's better to do fewer airports, but with higher quality, buildings, ground objects etc.

We are remaking our landscape for V3. It's a bigger area, but we only have 37 airports, and that's a big task for us, with 3 of us working on it.
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:31 pm

OXO wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:14 pm
That is too many airports. It's better to do fewer airports, but with higher quality, buildings, ground objects etc.
I'm sorry but I disagree. My landscapes have a low resolution texture, not the prettiest one, but for free. I make them for xc flying, so they have to be bigger, my default size is 600 tiles (24 x 25, because I have had a crash in landscapes editor with 25 x 25 tiles), 550 x 575 km. When I fly there, I spend 1 minute on the ground to start, and maybe 1 minute for to land. The rest of the time I hope to fly far away from all objects. So I don't need objects.

If I would make objects on the airports, I would like to have them like they are IRL, not any hangar on it, but the right hangar at the right place. So I decided not to make objects. No object is better than a wrong object on a wrong place in my opinion.

I like to handle all airports equal. If one gets nice objects, all have to get them. If I make a lot of airports, all with objects, it's a huge project, to big for the rest of my life.

I know that my opinion is opposite to the expectations of most of the users, but I make the landscapes first of all for myself and share them only, because maybe there are peoples to like them like I do.

When I started with Condor in 2020 my first landscape I downloaded was WestGermany3. More than 100 airports, but not my home airport, where I flew and lived until the 1980's. What a disappointment.

Second landscape was SouthernNorway4, I flew to the place I'm living now and landed there. At the place where our house is I found a church in style of the Alps. Disappointment number 2.

So my focus in landscapes is: All airports (as well as abandoned ones) and no wrong objects (EDIT but lots of trees!). Finished GermanyN some days ago, 456 airports, GermanyS is under construction, it will have more than 600 airports (664 until now, but maybe I will delete some, if necessary because of the texture or other circumstances).

I understand that this is not the direction you like for Condor, because of the unnecessary comparison with MSFS, but it's my style and my time I spend to make them. Nobody is forced to use them, who don't like them can easy delete them (or not install). That's the freedom I have and I will continue to do it that way.
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Kekelekou
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kekelekou » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:26 pm

wickid wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:30 am
Anybody can make 3D models for gliders. The Condor team is more than happy to put any high quality community model into Condor. There are several models that were donated by members of the community. It is just that the flight model is done by the team to ensure realistic, accurate performance and handling. This "hack" check is already done on several files for each plane.
Fine if the hack check is implemented already. So user-made, non Condor-approved gliders could be created without jeopardizing the competitions (as long as the Condor-approved sailplanes ONLY are allowed to compete).
OXO wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:20 am
Actually not. There are very few people with the skills and free time to make planes, In the last 2 years (with only one exception) we have not received any completed glider models well enough made to not require substantial work by our team correcting them. This usually takes more time than making the model ourselves, but we keep supporting this idea.
Very little wonder that so few persons want to give a try at glider modelling. You have to :
- learn the basics of a 3D CAD software
- complete the modelling to a very high quality standard, what takes time indeed
- leave it to the Condor team and wait for months (if not years) until the flight model and animations are completed
- hope that no major update is planned, which would put the glider release on hold for months again
- then at long last, enjoy "your" sailplane in your favorite sim

I compared plane modelling to landscape modelling for a reason. Regarding sceneries, tools, tutorials are available, you can begin with a very simple landscape, then move on to satellite textures and 3D objects as you progress and master the skills. And as you give a try at your work IN THE SIM at every single step, which is a HUGE moral booster.
If the community was allowed to export 3D models and create (or copy) flight models, the wannabe modeller could benefit from the same "small steps, quick gain" progression path :
- first, creating a low quality external 3D model with a mickeymouse flight model and enjoying it in the sim
- then, creating a high quality external 3D model and enjoying it in the sim
- creating a cockpit model and enjoying it in the sim
- creating a somewhat realistic flight model and enjoying it in the sim
- etc etc

The Condor team is pretty small, so it would be highly beneficial to give the community the means to build-up skills on its own without putting another burden on the shoulders of the Condor team.
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6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:07 pm

I like that and have an idea how this could be done.

All (ore some) planes are doubled as experimental planes. They have the same properties as the original planes but some exceptions:

They can't fly in multiplayer mode
The files for the 3D-modell can be modified
(Maybe it doesn't has an animated pilot)

When I want to make my favorite plane (for me it's the L-Spatz 55), I have to do this

Deciding for a plane what is close to it, I would take the K8

Buying the K8 X (the experimental version of the K8)

Modifying all the 3D-modell files. I can change file by fil, so in first step it has maybe a K8 fuselage but the wings of the Spatz.


That way I get a plane looking like an L-Spatz 55, but flying like a K8

If my plane is good enough, I can deliver it to the Condor team, they integrate it and it gets all the properties of an L-Spatz 55.

Is this a way that could work?
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6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:08 pm

6266 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:07 pm
I like that and have an idea how this could be done.

All (ore some) planes are doubled as experimental planes. They have the same properties as the original planes but some exceptions:

They can't fly in multiplayer mode
The files for the 3D-modell can be modified
(Maybe it doesn't has an animated pilot)

When I want to make my favorite plane (for me it's the L-Spatz 55), I have to do this

Deciding for a plane what is close to it, I would take the K8

Buying the K8 X (the experimental version of the K8)

Modifying all the 3D-modell files. I can change file by file, so in first step it has maybe a K8 fuselage but the wings of the Spatz.


That way I get a plane looking like an L-Spatz 55, but flying like a K8

If my plane is good enough, I can deliver it to the Condor team, they integrate it and it gets all the properties of an L-Spatz 55.

Is this a way that could work?
Visit https://www.baleit.no

Vintage Series 24, The Journey
25 landscapes with free available textures, newest: Maine

Discord https://discord.gg/bAXJaRT6ZC

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