Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

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JeffSmith
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Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by JeffSmith » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:44 pm

Hi Guys, I'm trying to do a 1000km flight across flat terrain.
What is the best approach to adopt?

1) Fly up to cloud base before proceeding.
2) Gain 1000m and begin trip.
3) A combination of the first two.

I'm never quite sure how much altitude to gain before going for the next cloud.
Any advice will be most welcome as I only have Condor flight experience.
Cheers Jeff

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Paul_UK
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:46 pm

I'd say this will depend on your weather settings on the day.

If you set medium thermals (or higher), low variation, low/med winds then I'd be taking climbs to cloudbase (into cloud if cloud flying is allowed) then head off onto the next thermal. Aim to be no lower than half the height of cloud base when you take the next climb, roughly. In Condor you can however get away with going a bit lower. So if cloud base is 5000feet AGL find your next climb by 2500feet AGL.

I assume for a flat land 1000km xc flight you'll be setting quite a high cloudbase with at least medium strength, reliable climbs?

Get a feel for climbs. Say they're averaging 4.5 on the day when in thermals if they dip below this value (due to dying out) move on to the next thermal, unless you risk landing out not climbing higher at that point in time.

Don't stay right on track, follow a route to fly under as many CU as possible but don't veer miles off track in doing so. There is a balance.

Hope this helps.
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JeffSmith
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by JeffSmith » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:31 am

Hi Paul
Thanks for the info. I tried again with Neo last night on Hotazel and improved from 822km to 971km.
This was a 8h 12m 40s flight with only 87km left this time, and I probably scared quite a few sheep and cows at the end!
I adopted the approach as you said, to try and keep at least half way up to cloud base.
I also used all the benefits of weather setting and thermals, max activity etc.
The problem I have is thermalling with water, if I go above 70kg then it takes me much too long to gain decent height.
I think the next time I fly I will reduce my water further to 60kg as it's important to gain height quickly and keep moving.
Cheers Jeff

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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:31 am

If you have the strongest thermal settings set then I would fly with Max wing loading. You will lose far too much performance, especially on a long task, by not taking a full water load.

What are your climb rates? If they're above 4knots / 2ms I'd be keeping my tanks full. Once above these climb rates the time difference to cloud base greatly reduces compared to if you were climbing in a 1knot / 0.5ms to 2knot / 1ms climb. The duration of climb doesn't increase linearly as the climb rate makes you think it would.

Whilst I said not to go below halfway to cloud base test your weather settings to see at what height the thermals start working at their best. Then aim to find a thermal by this height. You ideally want to have to centre as few times as possible during the flight as ever time you centre you waste a little time. If you can get away with entering a thermal lower then you'll have to take less climbs overall saving time / increasing average speed. Whilst testing note your average climb rate too. On the Hangar/Settings tab you can enter this climb rate into the MC box and it'll give you your block speed to fly at (ensure glider is fully ballasted). Fly this speed between thermals, do not follow the speed director. Only use the speed director for final glide. An example is at MC 5.1 fully loaded fly a block speed of 102 knots.

I assume you wish to keep cloudbase at the height you have it set at? as you could raise cloudbase by 500feet and over 100km that will help increase average speed too. What are your other thermal settings set at? Can you start your task earlier? Take a higher tow and launch half an hour earlier?

Really work on centering the thermals as well.
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Pit_R » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:40 am

Hello!
If you like flatland soaring, what is not common, feel free to join to NLCC.

https://www.condor.club/comp/show/204/?id=563

viewtopic.php?f=30&p=175174#p174620

We're flying over very flat Netherlands. ;)
No matter where you go... There you are...

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Paul_UK
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:09 pm

I just took a little test flight in the LS8neo with thermals set to be extremely generous in what they give, very strong and wide with no variation, 5577feet cloud base. I set zero wind but this also meant zero streeting effect. I started the task at 09:45 airborne at max height. Thermals seemed to become stronger around 10:05. I stayed a little higher until thermal strength increased, in case they were weaker lower down earlier in the day. I had full ballast. I flew at a block speed of 105knots.

I flew around 92km and climbed back above my starting height to ensure the average speed was correct. The LS8 was averaging 130kmh over this distance. I am by no means the best / fastest Condor pilot either. I'm not too bad but I am regularly beaten in races :lol: Based on the average speed I achieved you should be on task for around 7 hours 45mins.
LS8_Neo.JPG
Shot3.jpg
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JeffSmith
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by JeffSmith » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:07 am

Hi Paul, I wonder how you would have fared on Hotazel. I also start at 9:45 from Doornpan_Zud in the NE. Then I fly down to Bram_Fischer in the SE and turn right to fly up to Twala_Reserve in the NW. Then the final leg is back to the beginning. Starting earlier means I can't find a thermal and end up out-landing after about 100km. Adding more water also has the same effect as the extra weight kills the climbing ability when being too low in the thermal. I have the temp on 40°C and the dewpoint on 1°C for max height with the cloud ceiling on max too. The wind speed is 20km/h. Perhaps I should try with 26°C instead, as that is more realistic for our summer temp? I have a lot to learn regarding flying conditions. Cheers Jeff

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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by G-ROB » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:33 am

Hi Jeff
I had a look at your flight plan and modified it a little to make your flight a bit easier. I removed the wave weather setting because you won't find too much use from it on the highveld and it will just make your final glide difficult as you will be flying into a 40kph headwind. Also try use a glider from the 15/18m class for the extra legs on your final glide. You might also want to try replace Bram Fischer with Tempe for a 1038km total distance. Don't forget to fill the glider to the brim as you can always dump it later in the day and stay high.

Good luck

P.S. thank you for the Parys scenery
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:22 pm

Jeff, I don't have the Hotazel scenery, I'm downloading it now. My assumption was you are keen to complete the task in a STD class glider? or as G-ROB states using a higher performance glider will be a massive benefit. Can you post up your fpl file on here please Jeff, we can take a look at exactly what you have set. As you have wind don't let yourself be blow downwind of track too much either, this will lower your average speed as you'll eventually have to fly back toward the TP.

What launch method do you use for you task? I suggest either airborne at max allowable or Aerotow to max allowable. You'll be able to glide a fair distance from this alone and hopefully for long enough / far enough to make contact with that first bit of lift.

Key factors for a decent soaring day over flat land:

Date: According to Google December 21st gives the longest soaring day in South Africa however I do not know if Condor accounts for southern / nothern hemisphere differences? When the scenery downloads I'll have a play with start time and what is possible.
Light winds: This will help create a little streeting but not too much drift whilst thermalling. I'd set 5knots - 10knots, you are currently set right at the upper limit.
Upper cloud cover: Zero
Upper winds: Zero
Cloud base: The higher you set cloud base the less thermal generation there'll be, at least that is my understanding of things in Condor. Try setting a cloud base of 6500feet or so. See my below images for very high cloudbase and a lower one. Look how many more CU there are with the lower cloud base. Lower cloud base naturally won't get you as far on a single glide. I've also attached a pic of settings I think will work.
Strong_thermal_1.JPG
High thermals
Shot9.jpg
Med thermals
Shot10.jpg
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:10 pm

So I just had a play on Hotazel. Certainly see the amount of CU vary depending on cloud base set. If you don't mind taking a lot of climbs then a lower cloud base will yield more thermals compared to a higher cloud base. With CU more spread you're also not always in synch with the thermal generation pattern.

With cloud base set at a lowly 6500 there are plenty of CU around at a start time of 0920. Climbing away at the first thermal on track was easy.
Shot14.jpg
I took G-ROBS fpl and tweaked it so the thermals were even stronger, less variation etc so you guaranteed to always get a good climb bar when a thermal is degrading. I set off at 0920 into the image below. I waited until there was 30 seconds until start time before starting the actual flight. Headed straight off down track at 80knots (ignore ASI, I nosed a little too much gaining speed).
Shot17.jpg
I got lucky and finally a CU popped ahead on track. I was getting low so was flying no faster than 75knots by now. The thermal worked well low down and I climbed until my average climb dropped below 5.5. I did not make it to cloud base. I headed on. In this shot I am just starting to pull up in the 1st thermal. As you can see CU are starting to pop nicely now ahead of me.
Shot18.jpg
In the next climb I bailed when average got below 6 (thermals are stronger now). I kept doing this until eventually a climb got me to cloud base. Don't stay in a climb whilst it is dying, you'll just waste time. My average speed after flying off from this thermal and not quite getting as low as what I started was 74knots / 137kmh. I don't have time to fly a 1000km task I'm afraid :(
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:11 pm

Baro from what I flew. You can see it took a few thermals to get up to cloud base. Moving on once the average dropped below what I was happy with keeps up the average speed.
LS8_Neo_SA1.JPG
Tweaked FPL, gives extremely strong climbs, as long as you arrive to them on time!
Hotazel1000kP78.fpl
Whether you choose to head off quite so early is up to you! :mrgreen:

Seeing how far each thermal is spread if I came across a newborn CU I'd probably take it unless I was only 2000feet or so below cloud base. Same if the climb was still strong. Flying to a CU that looks good in the distance means it will be possibly be dying by the time you arrive and with a wide spread between thermals this can become a possibility and if this keeps repeating itself you'll find yourself getting lower and lower. Keep an eye out for those newborn CU's! One thing, I tend to be a little risk adverse, even in Condor, it's why I'm not the fastest, that and sometimes a poor decision under pressure. You may achieve a faster average pushing on and only doing pull-ups through some of the good thermals.
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by JeffSmith » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:01 pm

Hi Paul, what is CU? My biggest problem with my current settings is as you said, the clouds are far apart and decaying when I get there. I've flown a number of challenges with Neo and really like the glider. I figure it important to learn the basics before adding flaps. The bigger gliders certainly would make the flight easier. Thanks for the support and FPL's I will study these to see how it affects the lift and flight generally. Here is my most successful attempt. This feedback will give me a fighting chance at finishing next time. Cheers Jeff
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by JeffSmith » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:09 pm

Hi Robert, I did the Draak and Parys landscapes because a friend flies there. The bug bit after I saw there was nothing for South Africa in C2 format. What worries me is that there are very few FTR's posted on the Club website for my landscapes. I do hope that people are flying them at home because creating landscape is really costly in both data and time. Parys took me 23 days to complete. The hardest part is discovering airstrips as the information available is really poor and inaccurate in some cases. Thanks for the FPL. Cheers Jeff

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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:28 pm

JeffSmith wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:01 pm
Hi Paul, what is CU? My biggest problem with my current settings is as you said, the clouds are far apart and decaying when I get there. I've flown a number of challenges with Neo and really like the glider. I figure it important to learn the basics before adding flaps. The bigger gliders certainly would make the flight easier. Thanks for the support and FPL's I will study these to see how it affects the lift and flight generally. Here is my most successful attempt. This feedback will give me a fighting chance at finishing next time. Cheers Jeff
When I say CU I am referring to cumulus cloud. I think the task might just be doable in the LS8neo, if you have the Discus2a I'd use that over the neo as you can load it up more (higher wing loading), though going by polar at various MC and speeds there isn't much difference on paper. Throwing flaps into the mix enables the wing to work more efficiently at speed thus you'll fly further in the same time period.

I wish you good luck. With my fpl if you don't want to just fly off down track into the blue advance the time by ten minutes and the cumulus I eventually connected with will appear sooner. The problem is will you arrive in time to take full advantage of it? As you've noticed decaying cumulus are an issue when spread. You really have to keep an eye on what is developing ahead, which are the newer cumulus. Hopefully now and then a new born will develop in front of or just off track so you can divert to it. There may be a happy medium and lowering cloud base down to 8500 will provide a fairly decent length of glide between thermals but there'll also be more thermals generated giving you more choice.

Good luck in your quest :mrgreen:
Last edited by Paul_UK on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best approach for racing cross country in flat terrain

Post by Paul_UK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:32 pm

Just looked at your FPL. Try either G-ROBS fpl or mine and you will notice a drastic difference in climb rate. If wind actually created decent streets in Condor it may be worth having a wind strength set as per your fpl however as it doesn't I'd not be setting the wind as strong as you have it.

Good luck :mrgreen:
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