Personal data?

[hitzi]

Hey,

does anyone use the Condor chat within Condor for personal data? I got a request to disable the default display of the Condor chat on the alternative serverlist. I never thought that someone could use the chat within a simulation to exchange personal data.

What's your opinion on this topic?

Thanks
Thomas

[Bre901]

How can someone think that this chat is private when everyone connected to the race sees it

As a tasksetter, I appreciate to be able to take a look comments made during a race if I'm not flying in (or when there is more than one server)

Keep it public !

[6266]

It was me with the request ...

I think, it's a difference thinking om other competitors coming in to the task or people who can see the log on the server and the rest of the world.

If you are interested in what happens on the server, you can see it live in DSHelper on your server.

If you go on hitziger serverlist

https://condor.hitziger.net/serverlist/

you can see the chat too, and everybody in the world can see it too. That's the request, not the public chat live on your own DS.

[wickid]

I have to agree with 6266 on this. Chats in the server should not be made public without permission of at least the server host. If it is not announced by the host that it will be made public, I think you'd need permission from everybody on the server... GDPR is pretty strict.

Another thing is people livestreaming races to youtube or twitch. AFAIK you'd have to have permission from everybody in the server. Or at least let everybody in the server know that you are streaming. When we hosted the Dutch Virtual Nationals we had a privacy document explicitly allowing chats and the stream to be made public and before you got a password to the server participants had to agree.

[hitzi]

If we assume that the text on a computer game Server is worth to be protected than I have to remove this function completely. I - as the owner of the alternative Serverlist webpage - don't know if the Server operator ask for the permission. The only option is to remove this function.
What about the username? Maybe your username is known to another one or your username is your real name - I could create a profile of you with the info you are the leader of a task at a given time. Or your boss knows your username and sees your are the leader of a task at work time .... maybe even the username is worth to be protected. Then we all have to reduce the info on the serverlists to an absolute minimum.
But remember ... the Condor chat isn't meant to be a secure place to talk to other. No one forces you to enter informations which isn't for the public. No such information is required to join a flight. Even if I reduce the serverlist to an absolute minimum how do you that another user on the same server don't use the stuff you tell there "against" you. So all the text you enter in the Condor chat is public available ... you only need a Condor license.

[6266]

If the option for public chat is set in DSHelper, DSHelper could send a text for all joining people, like this

"The chat is public on the serverlist, if you don't agree with this, please leave the server"

than you know, that you have the permission. Is that a way to go for you?

[hitzi]

You can't assume the user accepted this just by reading without a reaction of him. Therefore you need a user input that he/she accepts the use of cookies if you visit a website, and need to double opt in for newsletters and accept the data protection before you can send a blog comment.
I think if someone wants to sue me because of GDPR a simple sentence with every user join wont protect me. Especially when I have no control of the server/DSH.

I think it's the best to disable all the extra features of the alternate serverlist. This is already done. The details for the server wont show you text/events from the server or the connected users.

[6266]

Thanks for the fast reaction. I hope you see this not against you, but to protect you. As I wrote before the DSHelper is a great helpfully tool

[OXO]

What about discord audio and teamspeak? I
Don’t see anything happening there,

[6266]

The owner of a side is responsible, in case of Discord and teamspeak it's their job to follow the rules.

In my case it was me who published the chat of the tasks on my DS via DSHelper in the whole world, without knowing about that fact, because it was on per default. That was the start of the discussion. That hitzi deleted the function from his server is more as I expected, but it is in his responsibility. I think he did the right thing.

On my result-side I only show the CN but not the name of the competitors. Thinking about that a little bit more I'm not showing the RN any longer, the next step will be to anonymize the CN. Coming soon.

The rules are strict and expensive. Up til now they are for business only (I think), but I don't want to discuss this with a judge ...

[wickid]

What about discord audio and teamspeak? I
Don’t see anything happening there,

Discord and teamspeak do not get published. The problem here was that Hitzi was publishing the chat from a condor server on his website with the username. That is personal data and is protected under the GDPR. As Hitzi cannot check if every person in the server has given explicit consent to publish this it is best for him to not publish it.

Another point is streaming which is done on several servers by several people. I personally don't mind being streamed but those people have to be careful because they may be in breach of the GDPR as well...

[Xavier]

In my humble opinion this kind of discussion is of no interest for the moment, as long as it is not supported by International or European laws.

Laws whose references and texts I would like to be quoted here to know if it applies to the case presented.

What kind of personal data are exposed in a chat? You are always responsible for what you write or say.

What kind of damages? Who is injured!...

[6266]

I thought first only about informations you write in the chat. If you do this, you have to know, that the whole world can read this. I didn't knew that but was responsible for it.

But also without writing something in the chat there are personal data of you in the chat.

Connecting, entering the game, disconnecting, all with name and time. One example:

You don't feel very good and go to the doctor. He sends you home, so you get free from job. Your boss see in the chat, that you are playing condor the whole day. The boss pays to you for to retire, if he does'nt like/need you very good, you will loose your job immediately.

Is this damage enough?

Hitzi wrote about gaming on the job, it's the same issue with the same result.

I cannot say which international laws are involved, I'm not a lawyer, maybe only a loud thinker. In germany this is mainly the EU DSGVO. But I take data protection very serious. Important is in my opinion, to know and to think about that. If you come to another resolution, do it your way. Hitzi changed something because of discussing that. I do it too.

[wickid]

Problem is that names (that includes any data that can be linked to a person like a nickname in game) is protected under the GDPR. This is european law and is ratified in all EU countries. In the Netherlands the law is called the AVG.

You need explicit consent from all persons before you can publish this.

[EDB]

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic ... tion-eu_en

https://gdpr-info.eu/

Discord isn't clear about their data protection. Teamspeak is...

For streamers I advice to turn off the chat in Condor and to not stream the TeamSpeak audio channel they listen to...