Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

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OXO
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by OXO » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am

grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:52 am
OXO wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:01 pm
We are not thinking about that. We have plenty to do with Condor improvements already.
Hi!

What improvements was made in 1year time. I just wonder.

50$ - one map(when will be some more?) - others made by users! using a very poor (or self-made) and un-intuitive bunch of tools.
I am facing a lot of excuses that there are "only 2 people" in the team while the community asks to be involved in development constantly, make team bigger, share tasks. Is there a plan to start thinking about some leap in these terms?
No.

The community has done a beautiful job producing and releasing 121 landscapes for Condor 2 in 2.5 years. There is no need for Condor Team to make landscapes.
Chris Wedgwood,
Condor Team

mumblecake
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by mumblecake » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:09 pm

Rotareneg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:38 pm
Yeah, I took the CTLS out for a spin from Innsbruck Airport with a strong south wind and found no evidence of ridge lift. The flight models are more suitable for an arcade game than something claiming to be a simulator. The volumetric clouds, while sometimes looking really nice, also have a bad habit of becoming way too dark and ominous, ending up looking more like something from Flash Gordon. All in all, it was exactly what I expected. Best part was when MS refunded my $1.11 when I canceled the XBox Game Pass for PC subscription, so it didn't even cost a dollar to test. :D
I think this is really the crux and answers the question. If the flight model doesn't properly simulate thermals, ridge and wave lift there isn't even a starting point to create a gliding add-on.
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by grinvaldsjanis » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:56 pm

OXO wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am
grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:52 am
OXO wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:01 pm
We are not thinking about that. We have plenty to do with Condor improvements already.
Hi!

What improvements was made in 1year time. I just wonder.

50$ - one map(when will be some more?) - others made by users! using a very poor (or self-made) and un-intuitive bunch of tools.
I am facing a lot of excuses that there are "only 2 people" in the team while the community asks to be involved in development constantly, make team bigger, share tasks. Is there a plan to start thinking about some leap in these terms?
No.

The community has done a beautiful job producing and releasing 121 landscapes for Condor 2 in 2.5 years. There is no need for Condor Team to make landscapes.
You didn't get the question: I was asking about development of simulator, content creation tools... you owe the community that extra time which takes to struggle with poor, bad experience and yesterday tools. They should be improved and community could help with that too.
I know person who develops map for 2 years because pipeline is bad, learning curve is bad, video tutorials does not exist at all.
For example - I generated tiles for thermal map - so what next? There's no such scenario which could be found in with google. Why not make proper landscape editor with everything in there and spare a lot of time for those poor honorable people making sceneries?

BTW there's no thermal map for single original map(Slovenia), so it makes it even more mistified.

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by EDB » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:20 pm

Ever heard of the word MANUAL..?

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by wickid » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:41 pm

grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:56 pm
OXO wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am
grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:52 am


Hi!

What improvements was made in 1year time. I just wonder.

50$ - one map(when will be some more?) - others made by users! using a very poor (or self-made) and un-intuitive bunch of tools.
I am facing a lot of excuses that there are "only 2 people" in the team while the community asks to be involved in development constantly, make team bigger, share tasks. Is there a plan to start thinking about some leap in these terms?
No.

The community has done a beautiful job producing and releasing 121 landscapes for Condor 2 in 2.5 years. There is no need for Condor Team to make landscapes.
You didn't get the question: I was asking about development of simulator, content creation tools... you owe the community that extra time which takes to struggle with poor, bad experience and yesterday tools. They should be improved and community could help with that too.
I know person who develops map for 2 years because pipeline is bad, learning curve is bad, video tutorials does not exist at all.
For example - I generated tiles for thermal map - so what next? There's no such scenario which could be found in with google. Why not make proper landscape editor with everything in there and spare a lot of time for those poor honorable people making sceneries?

BTW there's no thermal map for single original map(Slovenia), so it makes it even more mistified.
There are excellent manuals that describe landscape creation here: https://www.condorsoaring.com/downloads-2/

There is a thermal map for the default slovenia map. It is contained in the .TDM file.
PH-1504, KOE

linus.seits
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Re: Are we really talking about this? - A sin!

Post by linus.seits » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:10 pm

wickid wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:24 pm
JShieck wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:16 pm
To see the thermal system of FS2020 I would recomment testing it with the Flight Design CTLS.
It's the only plane that looks like to fly slow enogh to circle in a thermal (with running engine).
It's like the Sinus from Pipistrel.
So you can test it.
I hope for MS to make any glider for their FS.

However Condor Soaring will ever be THE sailplane simulator,
the best choise for XC Soaring!!!

It must be hard for the Condor team to see this discussion doubting the best sailplane simulator existing.
Tried MSFS. I haven't found any thermals or ridge lift. So it is useless for gliders at the moment. It is pretty much only pretty graphics and not much else.
I tried it on the Bergstraße Ridge of the Odenwald in germany ... it worked pretty well with the DV20 katana wirh stopped motor and 20kts of wind.... 😂

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by mumblecake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:23 am

grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:56 pm
OXO wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am
grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:52 am


Hi!

What improvements was made in 1year time. I just wonder.

50$ - one map(when will be some more?) - others made by users! using a very poor (or self-made) and un-intuitive bunch of tools.
I am facing a lot of excuses that there are "only 2 people" in the team while the community asks to be involved in development constantly, make team bigger, share tasks. Is there a plan to start thinking about some leap in these terms?
No.

The community has done a beautiful job producing and releasing 121 landscapes for Condor 2 in 2.5 years. There is no need for Condor Team to make landscapes.
You didn't get the question: I was asking about development of simulator, content creation tools... you owe the community that extra time which takes to struggle with poor, bad experience and yesterday tools. They should be improved and community could help with that too.
I know person who develops map for 2 years because pipeline is bad, learning curve is bad, video tutorials does not exist at all.
For example - I generated tiles for thermal map - so what next? There's no such scenario which could be found in with google. Why not make proper landscape editor with everything in there and spare a lot of time for those poor honorable people making sceneries?

BTW there's no thermal map for single original map(Slovenia), so it makes it even more mistified.
I think you are missing the point that it is incredibly rude (as in probably going against forum guidelines) to highjack someone elses thread for a discussion which has nothing to do with what the OP (i.e. me) wanted to ask/discuss.
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mumblecake
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Re: Are we really talking about this? - A sin!

Post by mumblecake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:26 am

linus.seits wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:10 pm
wickid wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:24 pm
JShieck wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:16 pm
To see the thermal system of FS2020 I would recomment testing it with the Flight Design CTLS.
It's the only plane that looks like to fly slow enogh to circle in a thermal (with running engine).
It's like the Sinus from Pipistrel.
So you can test it.
I hope for MS to make any glider for their FS.

However Condor Soaring will ever be THE sailplane simulator,
the best choise for XC Soaring!!!

It must be hard for the Condor team to see this discussion doubting the best sailplane simulator existing.
Tried MSFS. I haven't found any thermals or ridge lift. So it is useless for gliders at the moment. It is pretty much only pretty graphics and not much else.
I tried it on the Bergstraße Ridge of the Odenwald in germany ... it worked pretty well with the DV20 katana wirh stopped motor and 20kts of wind.... 😂
So you are saying that you have experienced at least some kind ridge lift? That's promising (though without thermals it is still a no-go and without wave it is boring ;))
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grinvaldsjanis
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by grinvaldsjanis » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:51 pm

mumblecake wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:23 am
grinvaldsjanis wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:56 pm
OXO wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am


No.

The community has done a beautiful job producing and releasing 121 landscapes for Condor 2 in 2.5 years. There is no need for Condor Team to make landscapes.
You didn't get the question: I was asking about development of simulator, content creation tools... you owe the community that extra time which takes to struggle with poor, bad experience and yesterday tools. They should be improved and community could help with that too.
I know person who develops map for 2 years because pipeline is bad, learning curve is bad, video tutorials does not exist at all.
For example - I generated tiles for thermal map - so what next? There's no such scenario which could be found in with google. Why not make proper landscape editor with everything in there and spare a lot of time for those poor honorable people making sceneries?

BTW there's no thermal map for single original map(Slovenia), so it makes it even more mistified.
I think you are missing the point that it is incredibly rude (as in probably going against forum guidelines) to highjack someone elses thread for a discussion which has nothing to do with what the OP (i.e. me) wanted to ask/discuss.
You are right.

scls19fr
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by scls19fr » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:04 pm

After seing this post viewtopic.php?f=29&t=19196 I noticed this one... so posting here (even it's a quite old topic)

Gliders support in MSFS is currently in development. See https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/gl ... ase/135815

Some modders converted some FSX gliders to MSFS http://www.andreadrian.de/FS_2020_sailplanes/ https://msfs.touching.cloud/mods/ms-dg-808s/
Some modders also created software for simulating winch, aerotow, thermals https://msfs.touching.cloud/mods/kinetic-assistant/ and manage competitions https://msfs.touching.cloud/mods/albatross/

Visually, MSFS is really impressive! (search for Youtube videos with "MSFS glider")

But Condor 2 currently still have my preference because the way thermaling is managed in MSFS is not really integrated with the simulator (it's an external software which uses SimConnect API).

I also wonder if Condor dev shouldn't work to provide gliders to MSFS as (paid) addon and / or work with MS / Asobo to provide their own expertise (at least about weather and interaction with gliders).
Last edited by scls19fr on Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:36 pm

Tried the gliders in MSFS. Flight model of the DG808 is very very bad. The discus one is slightly better but the model is shockingly bad.

The problem with MSFS is that the flightmodel is flawed. It was flawed in FSX and they carried that over to MSFS and added turbulence affecting different parts of the planes differently. But that still leaves the base flight model that is highly inaccurate.

For example. You will always get a higher LD at lower flap settings currently. So if you fly the DG808 at 100 kph with flaps -10 it gliders better than with flaps 0. Which is wrong. The trouble is how MSFS handles flaps. It is written for draggy fowler flaps on Cessna's and Boeings. Not for plain flaps on gliders.

I could put a lot of effort into converting my Arcus, K8, Ka6 and Stemme models for MSFS but as long as the flightmodel isn't up to standard so I can make them perform realistically I'm not putting in the effort.

Than there is the next issue of realistic performance. Anybody can tweak the L/D of gliders in MSFS. It is an unprotected text file. So you can never have a fair competition.

The ridge lift model is kind of oke. But no wave, no thermals, anabatic winds.

IMHO it is just pretty graphics at the moment. It is nice for flying an Airbus and I certainly use it for that (And even that one is pretty unrealistic). But for gliding it is pretty useless. I'd rather spent my time making Condor better.
PH-1504, KOE

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by wickid » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:43 pm

If you are interested in the flight model issues:

https://xp-soaring.github.io/dev/polars/polar.html
PH-1504, KOE

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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by eRock » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:51 am

Greetings..
Hope it is ConsorSim team got the job..
https://youtu.be/txWoKztDlzI?t=2905
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by OXO » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:36 am

eRock wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:51 am
Greetings..
Hope it is ConsorSim team got the job..
https://youtu.be/txWoKztDlzI?t=2905
Not us.
Chris Wedgwood,
Condor Team

Lenticular
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Re: Question to the Devs: Condor addon for FS2020?

Post by Lenticular » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:43 pm

FS2020 sucks. The flight model is still the rubbish from 20+ years ago, with a few changes only.

The Aerosoft gliding sim looks similarly dumbed-down in the flight modelling.
G-ZULU /// LTN
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