VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Moderator: Bre901
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
It appears that some RL flight instructors are worried about respecting safety rules during Condor flights : it is very tempting to fly over unlandable places, without being able to reach an airfield or a landable field.
In Condor one can generally exit safely such situations as most of the time there is enough wind to create lift event at the bottom of narrow valleys, but this can create bad habits for RL pilots.
I've been thinking about at verification tool that could automatically detect such situations.
I've got everything in my toolbox except for the detection of terrain on the path to the airfield.
The coding of the straight-line calculation is easy.
It's more complicated for a track following a winding valley, but it's perhaps a bit luxurious.
So I could easily release a tool (with no graphical interface except entering the files to be processed) that would convert the .ftr into .igc and write in a file the time and position of the glider in case of exit from the safe zone.
In case of an alarm, the instructor would have to check more precisely with a tool like SeeYou or on cunimb.net (one could also a fictitious indication of engine operation put in the .igc file).
As an input, you would just need to have a .cup file with the airfields and landing zones, and create or edit a small parameters file (once and for all) in which you'd find some data like: safety height on arrival, glide ratio (or percentage of the maximum glide ratio), minimum duration of exit from the safe zone that triggers the alarm, etc.
Do you think it's worth starting such a development?
If yes, could we find some beta testers?
Comments are welcome
In Condor one can generally exit safely such situations as most of the time there is enough wind to create lift event at the bottom of narrow valleys, but this can create bad habits for RL pilots.
I've been thinking about at verification tool that could automatically detect such situations.
I've got everything in my toolbox except for the detection of terrain on the path to the airfield.
The coding of the straight-line calculation is easy.
It's more complicated for a track following a winding valley, but it's perhaps a bit luxurious.
So I could easily release a tool (with no graphical interface except entering the files to be processed) that would convert the .ftr into .igc and write in a file the time and position of the glider in case of exit from the safe zone.
In case of an alarm, the instructor would have to check more precisely with a tool like SeeYou or on cunimb.net (one could also a fictitious indication of engine operation put in the .igc file).
As an input, you would just need to have a .cup file with the airfields and landing zones, and create or edit a small parameters file (once and for all) in which you'd find some data like: safety height on arrival, glide ratio (or percentage of the maximum glide ratio), minimum duration of exit from the safe zone that triggers the alarm, etc.
Do you think it's worth starting such a development?
If yes, could we find some beta testers?
Comments are welcome
Last edited by Bre901 on Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: VerifLocal : gliding range verification tool
VerifLocal is a software that analyzes IGC flight recordings or files coming from the Condor simulator (.ftr).
It allows to check whether the glider has remained within gliding range of Landable Areas (LA) during the flight (according to a Glide Ratio) and can determine escape routes.
The name comes from the French gliding expression : “rester en local“: “remain within gliding range”
The proof of concept has been tested by French pilots but without a graphical user interface it was quite tedious to use.
Since then, I have added one.
The development took a bit longer than I thought (a lot of back and forth with the beta testers, whom I thank), version 1 is available.
The basic package can be downloaded here : https://www.condorutill.fr
It is not recommended to install the program in the C:\Programs folder or similar as it must be able to write to its installation folder.
As usual, reading the README.txt file and the manual before use cannot hurt (English version available)
If you want to test IGC flight recordings over the Alps and if Condor and the Arc Alpin 2 scene are not installed on your PC, it is possible to download the files (terrain and map) from here :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Y3PCS ... sp=sharing
For other landscapes, please see the documentation.
This software is already recommended by the French gliding federation (FFVP).
Do not hesitate to forward the information to your local clubs and/or federations if you feel it might interest them (I have contacted BGA directly)
The software is bilingual (English/French).
For the time being, it works only with metric units, but if there are enough requests, I could add Imperial and Australian units.
If you have any suggestions for improvements or comments (especially on the manual as I just translated it), don't hesitate!
It allows to check whether the glider has remained within gliding range of Landable Areas (LA) during the flight (according to a Glide Ratio) and can determine escape routes.
The name comes from the French gliding expression : “rester en local“: “remain within gliding range”
The proof of concept has been tested by French pilots but without a graphical user interface it was quite tedious to use.
Since then, I have added one.
The development took a bit longer than I thought (a lot of back and forth with the beta testers, whom I thank), version 1 is available.
The basic package can be downloaded here : https://www.condorutill.fr
It is not recommended to install the program in the C:\Programs folder or similar as it must be able to write to its installation folder.
As usual, reading the README.txt file and the manual before use cannot hurt (English version available)
If you want to test IGC flight recordings over the Alps and if Condor and the Arc Alpin 2 scene are not installed on your PC, it is possible to download the files (terrain and map) from here :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Y3PCS ... sp=sharing
For other landscapes, please see the documentation.
This software is already recommended by the French gliding federation (FFVP).
Do not hesitate to forward the information to your local clubs and/or federations if you feel it might interest them (I have contacted BGA directly)
The software is bilingual (English/French).
For the time being, it works only with metric units, but if there are enough requests, I could add Imperial and Australian units.
If you have any suggestions for improvements or comments (especially on the manual as I just translated it), don't hesitate!
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
-
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:11 pm
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
When you say "landable areas"...are those real life LA or inside Condor LA...the pinkish dots on my xcsoar map (after it went through my CondorWPFileGen )?
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
For IGC flights, it's the LAs that are in the user-provided .cup file(s)MrHerisson wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:30 pmWhen you say "landable areas"...are those real life LA or inside Condor LA...the pinkish dots on my xcsoar map (after it went through my CondorWPFileGen )?
Same for Condor flights + airfields (-ports) that are in the landscape .apt file
Most of the Condor landscape .cup files don't have landable areas (except Southern Norway 4)
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Screenshots of the application
Green = the glider is within gliding range of Landable Area(s)
Red=it is not
The red curve below the ground profile is the height missing to be within gliding range of a Landable Area
. .
Dashed lines are escape routes towards LAs
The profile in the bottom-left corner corresponds to the route under the blue cross
. .
[Edited to replace the pics with nicer ones]
Green = the glider is within gliding range of Landable Area(s)
Red=it is not
The red curve below the ground profile is the height missing to be within gliding range of a Landable Area
. .
Dashed lines are escape routes towards LAs
The profile in the bottom-left corner corresponds to the route under the blue cross
. .
[Edited to replace the pics with nicer ones]
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
The application can now be downloaded from my utilities webpage : https://condorutill.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.html
Please don't use the link to GoogleDrive anymore, as it may disappear anytime ...
Please don't use the link to GoogleDrive anymore, as it may disappear anytime ...
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
-
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:43 pm
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
It is very interesting, I see that I am flying safely ......
great analysis program
Thanks BRE901
great analysis program
Thanks BRE901
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: Yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Bug identified : the software crashes when reading IGC files from Condor-Club.
Until it is corrected, use only IGC files generated by Condor or CoFliCo
Or better, use directly the .ftr files (in that case VerifLocal gets the airport data from the landscape .apt file, which it does not when reading IGC files)
For IGC files converted from Condor .ftr files (whatever the converter), it is possible to have the landcape name, it will be used it the next version
Until it is corrected, use only IGC files generated by Condor or CoFliCo
Or better, use directly the .ftr files (in that case VerifLocal gets the airport data from the landscape .apt file, which it does not when reading IGC files)
For IGC files converted from Condor .ftr files (whatever the converter), it is possible to have the landcape name, it will be used it the next version
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Version 2 is in beta now
New features :
- possibility to select Landing Areas that will be used according to a preset difficulty level
- use of LK8000 .DEM terrain files (RL flights straddling more than one Condor landscape can be analysed)
- relief shaded maps
- airspace (displayed, not tested)
Please contact me by PM if you are willing to spend some time performing tests
New features :
- possibility to select Landing Areas that will be used according to a preset difficulty level
- use of LK8000 .DEM terrain files (RL flights straddling more than one Condor landscape can be analysed)
- relief shaded maps
- airspace (displayed, not tested)
Please contact me by PM if you are willing to spend some time performing tests
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
This is an excellent tool!
And right on time, as I needed exactly this kind of analysis for a difficult flight I made a few days ago.
Please be aware that it suffers from this same problem on the new CUP file format: https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic ... IC_ID=9123
One possible improvement would be to highlight the path where the required glide ratio approaches the safety limit (say ~10%): in other words, a "yellow" between the green and red, so that even if the glider didn't overcome the limit, you can glance where it approached it, to be aware of "attention areas".
A gradual shade between the three colors would be even cooler, but not necessary.
And right on time, as I needed exactly this kind of analysis for a difficult flight I made a few days ago.
Please be aware that it suffers from this same problem on the new CUP file format: https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic ... IC_ID=9123
One possible improvement would be to highlight the path where the required glide ratio approaches the safety limit (say ~10%): in other words, a "yellow" between the green and red, so that even if the glider didn't overcome the limit, you can glance where it approached it, to be aware of "attention areas".
A gradual shade between the three colors would be even cooler, but not necessary.
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Version 2 is available
It can be downloaded from my page: https://condorutill.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.html
The new features are mentioned in my post above (the new .cup format is supported)
Many thanks to the beta testers !
It can be downloaded from my page: https://condorutill.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.html
The new features are mentioned in my post above (the new .cup format is supported)
Many thanks to the beta testers !
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Paul_UK
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
- Location: Southampton, UK
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Hi Bre, out of curiosity I downloaded your tool and took a look at a race I flew with several last night here are my results:
I find it a little strange it was saying I wasn't within gliding range of an appropriate landing area when out over the flat areas? Also on the first ridge I had masses of height but cannot recall what was in the valley and how much was landable at this point in time. I'd agree my final glide was a little land hugging but I needed to push hard in the ASW20 to stay ahead of the larger wingspan gliders. Just some observations. Great tool for seeing how much of my flight track I can turn red
I find it a little strange it was saying I wasn't within gliding range of an appropriate landing area when out over the flat areas? Also on the first ridge I had masses of height but cannot recall what was in the valley and how much was landable at this point in time. I'd agree my final glide was a little land hugging but I needed to push hard in the ASW20 to stay ahead of the larger wingspan gliders. Just some observations. Great tool for seeing how much of my flight track I can turn red
2018 - Silver Badge complete - Forgot I could claim for the 100km diploma flying an out and return
2019 - Get up to speed and aim for a 300km task?! maybe.....
- Bre901
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:57 pm
- Location: Annecy (France)
- Contact:
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
In the analysis you show, the only landable places identified are the Condor airports, flat areas are not considered, you need to provide a cup file with landable fields (no fields are listed in the Condor .cup files, except for SouthernNorway4).Paul_UK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:23 amHi Bre, out of curiosity I downloaded your tool and took a look at a race I flew with several last night here are my results:
...
I find it a little strange it was saying I wasn't within gliding range of an appropriate landing area when out over the flat areas?
For the Alps (and nearby places) may I recommend that you download the .cup file made by the Fayence gliding club (AAPCA).
The link is in the manual, which I usually recommend reading, but as I'm in a good mood this morning, here it is : https://www.aapca.net/venir-voler-a-fayence/carte-vac/
the download link is at the bottom of the page (Telecharger le fichier Zip)
CN: MPT — Condor beta team — CondorUTill webpage: https://condorutill.fr/
- Paul_UK
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
- Location: Southampton, UK
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Bre, I've just read that I need to provide a cup file with landable areas. If I had that loaded I think most of the red would disappear bar maybe a little on the final glide.
The cup files are based on real life findings I assume?
As I fly in the UK it is hard for me to produce a cup file for flying in the Alps. Could it be an idea that pilots who fly these regions can upload CUP files somewhere so other Condor users could access them?
The cup files are based on real life findings I assume?
As I fly in the UK it is hard for me to produce a cup file for flying in the Alps. Could it be an idea that pilots who fly these regions can upload CUP files somewhere so other Condor users could access them?
2018 - Silver Badge complete - Forgot I could claim for the 100km diploma flying an out and return
2019 - Get up to speed and aim for a 300km task?! maybe.....
- Paul_UK
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:05 pm
- Location: Southampton, UK
Re: VerifLocal : yet another flight analyser, focusing on safety
Our posts crossed. You literally just answered all the questions in my post.
Many thanks Bre, top job!
Many thanks Bre, top job!
2018 - Silver Badge complete - Forgot I could claim for the 100km diploma flying an out and return
2019 - Get up to speed and aim for a 300km task?! maybe.....
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users