Condor 3 feature requests

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6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Mon May 22, 2023 9:20 pm

OXO wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:54 pm
How many of our guys would like to pay 30% extra to buy from Steam?
Not me, and I don't want to have anything online at another provider than Condor itself (data, account a.s.o)
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Luxaly
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Luxaly » Mon May 22, 2023 9:42 pm

6266 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 9:20 pm
OXO wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:54 pm
How many of our guys would like to pay 30% extra to buy from Steam?
Not me, and I don't want to have anything online at another provider than Condor itself (data, account a.s.o)
@OXO i did mean it as a secondary option to buy :) some like steam some dont u can either buy on website an play like it is now or can buy on steam with workshop integration players that move to steam can get keys for steam for their bought dlc planes :) u dont even need to really make 2 different versions.. steam starts launcher ppl get key from steam and enter it in launcher... u could even provide a f2p version so basically ppl dl on steam a f2p demo (very small landscape with 1 plane) and can choose to buy either via steam store (game unlock sold as DLC) or it has a buy direct link in the launcher (would need to be checked if thats ok with steam)

i dont think its allowed to sell its own version cheaper tho... prices would need to be the same... so the f2p on steam with buy direct link would be an option if thats allowed
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Kaibeth
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kaibeth » Thu May 25, 2023 11:19 pm

Steam burns developers.

Buy direct.
Postojna is still a pain in my empennage. :evil:

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ryanto
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by ryanto » Fri May 26, 2023 7:55 am

A rating system would indeed be nice. I don't know about others, but on my side, I could imagine pay a monthly subscription to the game rather than buying it once, and have access to the content and servers, have a website for competitions etc., A bit like Iracing (even though their monthly subscription don't give access to all contents - it's a bit too much in my opinion).

TroyMcClure
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by TroyMcClure » Fri May 26, 2023 10:09 am

OXO wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:54 pm
How many of our guys would like to pay 30% extra to buy from Steam?
It doesn't work like that at all and you know it.

It's a volume / margin mix topic that applies to every business, where you have to balance a higher cost of distribution channel vs. your higher revenues. The idea of charging 30% more on Steam is ludicrous of course, and if you approach it this way it's bound to fail, but again I'm very sure you know that since it really is business or marketing 101.
There's plenty of examples of other developers who absolutely make a parallel offering work, at the same price.

Don't say your customers don't want to pay for it and that you are not going to do it because of us: it's better to say that you don't want to do it for a slew of other reasons, be it technical, or not wanting to have to deal with an influx of new players that will strain your support, you don't have the resources to grow the community, etc. Or maybe you don't want to be exposed to Steam's rating and comment system...

But it's all your decisions as a company not to do it, don't tell me it's because of me as a potential buyer.

I'm going to get torched by all the people who say "buy directly from the dev, their margin is higher, if you don't you're a heartless puppy killer, Gabe Newell is Satan incarnated". I buy all Il-2 content from 1C Game Studios directly, I buy all DCS content from Eagle Dynamics directly, I buy all my MSFS add-ons outside of the in-game store (another example of small developers who very, very often offer their content in parallel at the same price, I know it's not exactly the same but still), etc.

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OXO
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by OXO » Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 am

Steam take 30%.

We don't believe that Steam would increase our sales.

So we would have to increase the price to make up for that. And that would probably reduce the sales.
Chris Wedgwood,
Condor Team

TroyMcClure
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by TroyMcClure » Fri May 26, 2023 10:54 am

OXO wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 am
We don't believe that Steam would increase our sales.
This is the meat of the matter, and I'd be curious to hear how you come to the conclusion that Steam customers are not a good fit for your product , but that is certainly off-topic.

6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Fri May 26, 2023 11:09 am

I think there are two customer groups for Condor.

One group are the gamers, playing today one game, next time another one and so on. For those it's interesting to have a monthly subscription and a platform where it's easy to change the game.

The other group are (active or former) real pilots looking for a good simulation, but no gamers. They use Condor for to simulate flying, but not for to play games. For those it's not interesting to have the monthly subscription and there is no need for a platform to change the game, because they don't change it.

I guess the real target group for the Condor team is the second group
Visit http://www.baleit.no/condor.nsf

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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by TroyMcClure » Fri May 26, 2023 2:05 pm

Off-topic, feel free to delete.

If you're talking real pilots, where I live the interest for gliding is dwindling and at my club "our guys" to take Oxo's expression is a diminishing number i.e. we have less and less glider pilots, and it's hurting us financially. We'd love to have new "customers" or even get inactive members back, but the fact is we're a decreasing bunch of ever older male members...

So the statement that the Condor team doesn't believe they're going to increase sales by joining the largest digital distribution platform in the world for PC gaming is interesting, and quite grim (without knowing the thought process).
Since development is presumably still ongoing, it must mean that they have a plan on how to do this sustainably that is not based on a large number of new customers.

I don't think you should draw the conclusion that real pilots aren't also regular gamers, or that regular gamers aren't going to be interested in simulation.
But then the Condor team must have looked closely at that, and while I'd love to know how the discussion went, it doesn't belong here.

Luxaly
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Luxaly » Fri May 26, 2023 5:08 pm

TroyMcClure wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 2:05 pm
Off-topic, feel free to delete.

If you're talking real pilots, where I live the interest for gliding is dwindling and at my club "our guys" to take Oxo's expression is a diminishing number i.e. we have less and less glider pilots, and it's hurting us financially. We'd love to have new "customers" or even get inactive members back, but the fact is we're a decreasing bunch of ever older male members...

So the statement that the Condor team doesn't believe they're going to increase sales by joining the largest digital distribution platform in the world for PC gaming is interesting, and quite grim (without knowing the thought process).
Since development is presumably still ongoing, it must mean that they have a plan on how to do this sustainably that is not based on a large number of new customers.

I don't think you should draw the conclusion that real pilots aren't also regular gamers, or that regular gamers aren't going to be interested in simulation.
But then the Condor team must have looked closely at that, and while I'd love to know how the discussion went, it doesn't belong here.
gliding isnt just that prominent of a sport... everybody knows football(soccer for americans) but not many get introduced to gliding and the cost of doing it with a club... ofc it costs more than football but for what it is it aint expensive... u dont have to own a plane u can use club owned ones...

i think that having the sim on steam could quite help the sport by either getting bigger as e-sport but also ppl flying in condor that think how cool would it be to fly irl :) i myself target to try it irl atleast once... i have Acrophobia and i dont know if i wont Puke on thermaling :D sadly the next airfield to me is arround 40km away with no good options for public transport... i would need a car or cheaper a moped car to get there...
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ryanto
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by ryanto » Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 pm

6266 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 11:09 am
I think there are two customer groups for Condor.

One group are the gamers, playing today one game, next time another one and so on. For those it's interesting to have a monthly subscription and a platform where it's easy to change the game.

The other group are (active or former) real pilots looking for a good simulation, but no gamers. They use Condor for to simulate flying, but not for to play games. For those it's not interesting to have the monthly subscription and there is no need for a platform to change the game, because they don't change it.

I guess the real target group for the Condor team is the second group
Well I disagree. I fly in real life. Im a beginner (4 hours of solo flight) but Id be very happy to do some competition with a nicer support (server, rating - to make sure you compete with people your level) in the simulator, to be able to learn from it. In Condor, I learnt to spiral safely with many gliders close etc.

Max Verstappen drives often on iRacing. With your categories, he'd be a gamer?

6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Fri May 26, 2023 10:36 pm

ryanto wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 pm
Max Verstappen drives often on iRacing. With your categories, he'd be a gamer?
No, he is a racing driver IRL and virtuell. A gamer is a person focused on gaming, using different games
Visit http://www.baleit.no/condor.nsf

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15 landscapes with free available textures, newest: Alps

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ryanto
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by ryanto » Sat May 27, 2023 8:18 am

6266 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:36 pm
ryanto wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 pm
Max Verstappen drives often on iRacing. With your categories, he'd be a gamer?
No, he is a racing driver IRL and virtuell. A gamer is a person focused on gaming, using different games
Yeah that's my point. Enjoying ranking, servers and competition (and therefore paying membership) isn't only for "gamer". It also helps the devs to make contents.

6266
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by 6266 » Sat May 27, 2023 8:42 am

ryanto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 8:18 am
6266 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:36 pm
ryanto wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:12 pm
Max Verstappen drives often on iRacing. With your categories, he'd be a gamer?
No, he is a racing driver IRL and virtuell. A gamer is a person focused on gaming, using different games
Yeah that's my point. Enjoying ranking, servers and competition (and therefore paying membership) isn't only for "gamer". It also helps the devs to make contents.
Please what is your point? There is a ranking on CC, there are competitions and there are servers. What do you expect more with using steam? More rankings, more competitions, more servers? Look at the ranking in CC, go back in the list looking at the date of the last flight. 392 pilots ranked 2023. How will you fill more servers and more competitions? Catching gamers "living" in steam? Leaving WOW and all the other f... war games to fly gliders?

If you want competitions with lower ranked pilots, organize it on CC, and see how many competitors you will find. Maybe the interest is big enough, I would like that
Visit http://www.baleit.no/condor.nsf

Vintage Series, Condor Offline Championship, The Journey
15 landscapes with free available textures, newest: Alps

Discord https://discord.gg/bAXJaRT6ZC

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Kaibeth
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Re: Condor 3 feature requests

Post by Kaibeth » Sat May 27, 2023 11:38 am

Every “gamer” I have shown my simulator has replied with “you don’t shoot anything? What’s the point?”
Postojna is still a pain in my empennage. :evil:

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