[Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

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JJJ
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by JJJ » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:05 am

unfair tricks? just wrong tasksetting..
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goshawk
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by goshawk » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:09 am

Two day / Two trick....
Both of them were a well planned.

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Andrzej Czop
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Andrzej Czop » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:39 am

simply - just need to read briefing carefully - and no tricks
but in real competition forbidden zone means usually disqualification :wink:

GL on next tasks!

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3P
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by 3P » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:58 am

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JJJ
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by JJJ » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:10 am

If you guys say that the we played unfair on this task, while the task was just set for EVERYONE the same? Just read briefing and it will work. Don't wanna blame you because I think myself that this was just.. to easy to figure out that not all will do it.. but anyway next time Frenchies think about the task :)
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JJJ
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by JJJ » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:54 am

Why can't we watch the flightplan @ results? (to replay the race)
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LEAN
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by LEAN » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:25 am

Don't know, i ask ...

And i thought about this task, i wanted it exactly what it was :wink: :mrgreen:

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Tima (TSD)
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Tima (TSD) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:37 am

Andrzej Czop wrote:...but in real competition forbidden zone means usually disqualification :wink:

GL on next tasks!
This is exactly why we prefer not to bet on disqualification of not when noticed that there are no penalties for entering forbidden zone. So started below it and lost 15-20 minutes comparing to those who started inside that zone...
I would not encourage such tricks in the task parameters if they are intentional.
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Charon
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Charon » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:21 am

Very strange start conditions and disputable decision to start inside forbidden zone :roll:
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Phoebus » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:27 am

:?: Comment is superfluous :!:

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Pit_R
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Pit_R » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:42 am

LEAN: And i thought about this task, i wanted it exactly what it was ;) :mrgreen:

That's not a bug, that's a feature! :D

+ It was as good as other and maybe even little better... ;)
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Frank Lukas
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Frank Lukas » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:31 am

@ JJJ: What have you (and some others) done different? I assume, you entered the start zone in a high altitude and accepted the penalty in order to have the advantage of departing higher. Its just a clever trade, but never ever was the tasksetters intention, regardless from what they are saying now. You saw the hole in the rules, you used it very well! But my understanding of a penalty zone is - to avoid under any circumstances. If one enters such a zone intentionally, the result normally should be counted as outlanded at the time of entering the prohibited sector or the flight will be counted with zero points.

About the flight itself, I had mixed emotions along the entire track. Navigation was quite difficult with only the mountains available as significant landmarks. Only with the help of good teamwork we managed to complete the flight, exactly what a team competition is made for. This target was reached by the tasksetter. But what I also presently see is, that competition director(s) are try to present something new to us. That`s fine, but it is really difficult to find a good balance between fascination & frustration. Please take care about it! And now give us some old fashioned boring tasks...

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Frank (FL) - who will miss at least the next two races

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robyfly
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by robyfly » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:13 pm

One moment, let me understand..
there was a penalty zone and no penalty point for get in??? :shock:

that's why, at tp1, we seen many guys to get there really high! :evil:

in the race planning I didn't check it because I never found this "feature" before..

hmmm... not good.. :?
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Andrzej Czop
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by Andrzej Czop » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:50 pm

@Frank Lukas... Its just a clever trade, but never ever was the tasksetters intention, regardless from what they are saying now. You saw the hole in the rules, you used it very well! But my understanding of a penalty zone is - to avoid under any circumstances. If one enters such a zone intentionally, the result normally should be counted as outlanded at the time of entering the prohibited sector or the flight will be counted with zero points....

@robyfly ..there was a penalty zone and no penalty point for get in??? :shock:

I don;t agree with such views :?
See below default NOTAM settings - tasksetter if it changed to 10 points, had to think about this

So I repeat it again - please read briefing well and keep setting rules for this competition. Once these rules are good, sometimes bad but the chances are equal for all :wink:

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Andrzej
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TimKuijpers
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Re: [Dragonfly Provence Tour] Competition days

Post by TimKuijpers » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:06 pm

In RL competitions same things happen.
If new rules are implented, then somebody always find ways to profit of it. Then some new rule will be added to make the first rule work. The addition the new rule will cause it's own problem, so again an extra rule is provided..

In RL the finish ring for example: everybody knows that if you come in too marginal it can become dangerous.
So they thought, if we let people finish 3km away from the airfield, when they are too low to make it back, they can safely land out.
What happened is that everybody made a marginal finalglide to the edge of the sector: again dangerous.
So they put a minimum enter altitude on the ring with which you'd always make it to the airfield.
But this caused people to look inside their cockpits staring at the altimeter, while there will be lots of gliders aiming exactly at the same spot..
That was unwanted as well, so they said: if you come in below you will just get penalty points..
Now you can finish at 0m agl at stallspeed, get 50 penalty points instead of getting only 300 distance points..

So in fact a lot of rules added, but the problem is still the samen. Makes it much more difficult!

When the rules say the penalty for entering the penalty zone is none, there is no penalty on doing that.
Wether it is nice to implent such a rule, and not mention it specific is a different thing.
But the rules are there, they just weren't clear.

So I think the ones that entered the penalty zone were very smart, but it isn't much fun if you don't know about it.
Maybe next time the penalty points are only 1 per minute.. then it gets interesting.. it can still pay off to take the penalty and start high.
If that happens, would you still consider it as a 'trick' ? or just as reading the rules very well, and thinking about the possibilities it brings :wink:
Think positive, flaps negative.

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