Logitech Force 3D Pro - bought and returned

Marcin 'WhiteEagle' · Post by **Marcin 'WhiteEagle'** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:00 pm

Hello...

Yesterday I've bought a new joystick - Logitech Force 3D Pro - a face-lifted version of previous Force 3D. Logitech writes at its website that the force feedback function was upgraded. It has also a few more buttons.

After 2h of setting it up and about 4h of playing and still tweaking (Condor nonstop of course...

) I decided to return it. Fortunately there was no problem with that.

I fly gliders in RL so I was trying to set up its behaviour as close to RL as possible. I mean adjusting progression of its stickness according to actual airspeed. Other "events" are not really adjustable. OK, there are 3 sliders: general effect, spring effect and dumper effect + Condor setting (ffb strength), but... the joystick is back in the shop now...

If anyone is interested in subject please give me a sign and I will write some extra words about my not really nice experience with it.

BTW... I'm looking at CHProducts Fighterstick now - looks like good stuff but no FFB... Is there any joystick of the same quality but with FFB? With well done FFB...

Greetings,
Marcin

Chesty · Post by **Chesty** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:59 am

I use an old MS FFB1, gameport version. It's great. MS FFB2's are also very good but no longer available. I have seen them go for as little as $40 on Ebay Australia. Get one of those and you'll be happy, no notchiness. BTW, i've never flown a sailplane in RL. But in comparison to the feedback I get from my hang gliders basebar (not that it's the same), i'd say i'm happy enough with the effects I get from my MS FFB1.

KarlKoch · Post by **KarlKoch** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:37 pm

Chesty? Are you running Windows XP? MS FF 1 connected to sound card gameport? How did make it work? My FF1 is working as joystick, but no FF effects. Only the centering when you hold the stick.

Chesty · Post by **Chesty** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:00 pm

Yep I got it working. I have a Creative Riva128 (purely for the gameport) on XP Home. The effects are subtle but definately there. Stick trimming, vibrations at max vne, shudders right on stall, resistance etc. It wasn't working till patch 3 I think. Then it did. The forum has lost a lot of data so I can't post you to where and when it all came good.

TimKuijpers · Post by **TimKuijpers** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:53 pm

I'm also flying with a Forcefeedback-less FF1...
If you find anything, please let me know.

MosGuy · Post by **MosGuy** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:47 pm

I have two MS sidewinder 1 FFB sticks both worked fine with FFB. Although in the beginning I had the first one on loan without an AC adapter. I bought a 2nd off E-bay for $1 US that came with everything.

I'm running Win XP Professional with SP2, a SB Live and a SB Audigy cards, my stick and CH Pro pedals on it's own gameport. Using the auto-detect sidewinder entry I have full feedback. Does the FFB work on other games other then Condor ?.

TimKuijpers · Post by **TimKuijpers** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:47 pm

Nope, no FFB, just the normal stick force.

KarlKoch · Post by **KarlKoch** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:26 pm

What software are you using for the MS FF1? If i enable FF in Condor with the stick attached, it results in no effect at all. If i try it with FS2002, it results in ~5FPS and unplayable...

Chesty · Post by **Chesty** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:45 pm

I am just using the XP driver, sidewinder autodetect..........

MosGuy · Post by **MosGuy** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:57 pm

Along with Chesty I'm not running any software as the Sidewinder utility doesn't run under XP. I just use the auto-detect entry in the control panel and the set-up options in Condor and it works fine for me. It's possible that the FFB on some sticks might have problems. That's why I asked if the FFB worked ok in other games. If it doesn't work at all or still has problems in other games then something is wrong with the FFB itself.

MrSylvestre · Post by **MrSylvestre** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:37 am

Same experience as Chesty and MosGuy here. My MS sidewinder FF1 works really well (good FFB) with Condor since patch 1 or 2 I believe (before that, attempting to use FFB would result in a crash).

My joystick has been connected to the gameport of a SoundBlaster Live audio card, now upgraded to a SB Audigy. Force feedback is also active in other sims too (LockOn, IL2 series). About the software: XP SP2, default XP driver (autodetect).

Please note that the joystick will still be seen by the PC but will not provide force feedback if its power supply is disconnected. For those not getting forces, is the little green LED on the base of the stick lit, i.e. is the power supply working ?

Another possible issue is that at least two versions of the MS FFB 1 stick were sold: early versions had a little fan in the base, to cool the motors. Later versions do not have that fan mounted (even though the case is unchanged). I have the second version (no fan), maybe the first version had some other pecularities that cause problems with XP ?

Yet another possible cause of problems could be the serial protocol used by the MS FFB 1 stick to communicate with the PC. If I remember well, it makes use of the midi in/out channels so the gameport must also be a true midi interface.

Hope this helps.
Mr. Sylvestre

T.S · Post by **T.S** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:41 pm

markjt · Post by **markjt** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:59 pm

After using various sticks on a whole bunch of flight sims I recommend the MS FF2. It is head and shoulders above anything else with FF. Just plug in to any XP powered box and fly.

e-bay.co.uk has a regular supply of used FF2, with prices between Â£30 and Â£60. I don't know how often they appear on other e-bay sites.

The FF2 has a built-in PSU and is USB. XP comes with all the drivers it requires. The construction is so good that MS discontinued it... my theory is the quality was too good and they couldn't make enough $ on it, with a retail of about Â£70.

Mark