Cape Gliding Club simulator

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johanp
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:58 pm

Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by johanp » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:52 pm

Hi!

At my local gliding club, we just started last week to convert a wrecked ASW-15 fuselage into a simulator, for use in training as well as exposing people to the sport.

Attached is a photo of what it looked like the other night after we cut off the tail. Last night we removed the Tost hooks (those are still worth good money), and broke out the bulkhead at the back so we could remove the control rods. This will allow space for the computer to go (and speakers if we need them).

I've been struggling with what screen to buy (we'll go multi-screen later). At first I wanted to get a 32" or larger TV screen and mount it on top of the fuselage line (outside the cockpit). But then I realized that this would put the simulated horizon too high, and this will possibly mess with students when they go fly for real.

Still under consideration, but for now good progress!
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johanp
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:58 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by johanp » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:53 pm

Oh I didn't mention - you can see the nose is pretty banged up (the pilot outlanded in a quarry some years ago - he walked away, the plane didn't). Next on our list of priorities is cosmetic repairs to the fibreglass.

Martmers
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by Martmers » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:15 pm

Hi,
We are looking at doing a simulator for our Gliding club at portmoak, Scotland.
How has yours gone?
I'd love to hear your hints and tips,
Hope to hear from you,
Scott

dins
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by dins » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:00 am

Checkout current issue of Sailplane and Gliding, August-September- 5 pages of experiments, false trails... BTW Ref original post I dont know how one can easily train using a single seater. What does the instructor do -Our rule is very simple- if its not representative of how you would do it in a real glider, its counter -productive, so dont do it

janjansen
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by janjansen » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:37 am

dins wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:00 am
BTW Ref original post I dont know how one can easily train using a single seater. What does the instructor do
What does he do IRL? If he is constantly taking over controls from the student, then he's probably doing it wrong. You need dual controls in a real glider for the obvious reason of safety, but I simply do not see the point of dual controls in a simulator. Besides, training doesnt (or shouldnt) stop once you solo and the same could be said for the role of an instructor.

-Our rule is very simple- if its not representative of how you would do it in a real glider, its counter -productive, so dont do it
And yet commercial airline simulators are used primarily to train things which arent representative of RL like training of emergency procedures, rather than simulating more representative 6 hours of cruise flight on AP.

How to make best use of a simulator in a club is something that may be a challenge, and something clubs and instructors will have to adapt to. Im working on a simple simpit for my old club, and I too will be curious to find out how that pans out. But no matter how they use it, its going to be useful, as every hour you spend in condor is useful experience, Im absolutely convinced of that. Even if I fully realize its not the same thing, it absolutely helps a lot. I stopped gliding almost 20 years ago, but Ive kept flying condor. When I stepped in to a duodiscus last summer, its almost as if I had never stopped. In some ways, particularly strategic/cross country flying, I would go as far as saying Im a better pilot now then I was back when I flew regularly and held a license. Would I be as good or safe as someone who flew the same number of hours IRL rather than in condor? Of course not. Its not a substitute, its an additional training tool.

dins
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by dins » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:02 pm

Sorry for the delay in the reply. It depends at what stage of the learning process you are using the simulator..

if its for trained pilots, obvioulsy single "stick" is sufficient..

We are using our sim for early pupils, ie sharing lessons between real AC & sim, so an instructor demo is essential by manipulation of the controls is essential. One thing I have found with many pupils is that for example they operate ailerons then rudder, with a time gap- easy to spot when you have duplicated, linked controls..

As I say it depends what you are using it for. My implementation addresses most needs for most lessons and pilot abilities. And yes we do demo remote failures which you would be reluctant to demonstrate in flight, where Condor is representative. Our training program already addresses -until now only by blackboard/discussion- what to do for certain remote failures.

janjansen
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Cape Gliding Club simulator

Post by janjansen » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:13 am

We are using our sim for early pupils, ie sharing lessons between real AC & sim, so an instructor demo is essential by manipulation of the controls is essential.
Honestly, I dont see how that could be essential. Im even questioning if its useful when teaching primary flight controls and IMHO pupils will learn faster when they are explained and understand what the controls do and can experience the effects themselves (in this case, safely) rather than seeing it done. Think of it this way: when you learned to drive a car and stick shift, did you watch an instructors feet, or did you just try yourself following verbal instructions?

If for some reason, you think its essential a student can see someone fly properly, you could still do that with condor using (custom) flight school lessons or simply demonstrating it in the simulator taking turns. But dual input where both the instructor and student "fight" over control or the instructor corrects the student by overriding his input, and confuses the student about what effects are due to his input, the plane itself or the instructor, is absolutely terrible IMO. I think any good instructor will agree with me that only one pilot is in control and when he takes control or relinquishes control, he should say so and only 1 person operates the controls. When I was a student, I always thought the best instructors where the ones who talked to me and kept their hands off the controls (unless for safety obviously). I even found it annoying when they had their feet on the rudder, because it changes the feel completely.
One thing I have found with many pupils is that for example they operate ailerons then rudder, with a time gap- easy to spot when you have duplicated, linked controls..
This would be just as easy to spot if your simpit is open enough to see stick and pedals.

Either way, even if you disagree with me and think single control is less than ideal, I still maintain that less than ideal training time is far better than no training time.

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