"task training LLC"

mosquito · Post by **mosquito** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:08 pm

KL just metioned that there are already servers online called LLC training or similar on which the upcoming LLC task is being flown. I noticed the same thing already on the last sunday and wonder about the fact if this is fair in any way? I definately know that it's only the waypoints that are published and not the (maybe deciding) weather but it is still (maybe today not so much as we have an all-flatland-task) unfair for the majority of pilots that do not fly the task before and i believe that a lot of them don't have the time for it.

So my question to the LowlandsTeam would be if it is possible to publish the route maybe not a day before the race but only 30 minutes before the servers open? This should everybody using a external pda still leave the possibility open to enter the task into the pda and it would prevent prior-flying of the tasks.

I dunno if i'm the only one thinking that this is unfair but i think epsecially on tasks that lead trough the mountains it's an adavantage if you already know which route to take and already tested severall ways...

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:17 pm

I tend to agree, especially for mountain/wave tasks. We originally sent the email as a reminder and race confirmation message, for which a day in advance is better. later on, people asked to add the briefing so they could study the terrain in advance, before being towed, which also seems fair, but indeed doesnt require a full day.

I think it would be better to remove the briefing from the emailing, and instead just publish the map + briefing on the website an hour or so in advance. Sending it by email 30 mins before the race will be hard, as sending 320 personalized emails with embedded images takes around 30 minutes by itselve

mosquito · Post by **mosquito** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:21 pm

Vertigo wrote:I tend to agree, especially for mountain/wave tasks. We originally sent the email as a reminder and race confirmation message, for which a day in advance is better. later on, people asked to add the briefing so they could study the terrain in advance, before being towed, which also seems fair, but indeed doesnt require a full day.

I think it would be better to remove the briefing from the emailing, and instead just publish the map + briefing on the website an hour or so in advance. Sending it by email 30 mins before the race will be hard, as sending 320 personalized emails with embedded images takes around 30 minutes by itselve

jep, agree.
the website-solution sounds good...

swt · Post by **swt** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:23 pm

I agree with mosquito. Preflight email is OK with "weather forecast", but actual turnpoints should be left unknown (IMHO until server start). I use PDA and there is much more time than needed to enter it into PDA directly from server data, before "Join flight".
So I see no need to pre-publish map at all. If anyone need study terrain for so long, I'd rather vote for prolonging join time. Publishing on web is in my eyes definitely better than email. This way You let ppl get it if they want and only who want it will get there, while email You had to send to every single one ...

mosquito · Post by **mosquito** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:34 pm

by the way - vertigo: why dont we try it today, or is it too much work?

just to change the task and publish it on the homepage short before the race?

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:43 pm

Publication on the site is already being done (go to day 11). As for changing the task now... its up to S. Low, he's in charge of tasks and servers. If he has time, I won't object, but I also don't think its a problem to fly this one, as I don't think there is a whole lot to "train" with no weather or time data.

GregNuspel · Post by **GregNuspel** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:11 pm

OK I confess, I started one up this week because I saw others up. I wanted to try the perfect porpoising procedure

I am sure that my practice will not be a threat

I hope I didn't upset anyone I just hope your weather is better than mine.

I think the real leveling field will be with the new scenery since some people know every valley in Condor. I have been following someone and think why are they taking that way and then I find out, sometimes the hard way

I also know places where I can find a wave with the wind from a particular direction and someone new to the game doesn't.

I like the idea of the 30 minute posting and soon we can have in the briefing; 'today's task is in the Swiss Alps"

Haldor · Post by **Haldor** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:14 pm

Prior to a RL comp. there is often day(s) of training in that particular area under different weather conditions.

However I agree that the TP's should be kept as a secret untill the servers open.

Here is what I prefer known in advance:
Airport used, weather forecast and maybe some hints as to what to expect. Also the formality of what class is to be used. I know the classes rotate but as I said the added formality.

The problem with trial runs here in LLC is that it will favour those who have the time to spend practicing which defeats the purpose of LLC, a even as possible starting point for all, newbies or pro's.

desktopsimmer · Post by **desktopsimmer** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:37 pm

as a compromise, pilots could be given 24hrs in advance a "test task" with same or similar weather conditions, locations of penalty zones, task length and the start and finish TPs. [edit] The route of the the task is omitted.

What do other people think?

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:56 pm

I think a lot of people are taking this way too seriously and have way too much time !

thermal · Post by **thermal** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:00 pm

Receiving the map and general meteo info a couple of hours before a match suites me fine.
That gives me time to print it, after rushing home from work, and study it while I have dinner.
I wouldn't know where to find the time to test fly a task anyway, but that's personal circumstance.
Sundays are a bit different, but then I'm afraid that my family would suspect that my passion became an obsession....

Detailed local terrain knowledge will always be an advantage anywhere, but this effect will gradually disappear over time in Condor when new sceneries become available, or we all become local experts.

GregNuspel · Post by **GregNuspel** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:05 pm

Vertigo wrote:I think a lot of people are taking this way too seriously and have way too much time !

What do you mean too serious. I book my Sunday events around it, my kids run me snacks (in flight service not too many RL sailplanes have that) I'm grumpy at work on Thursdays as lunch rolls around just knowing a task is underway.

desktopsimmer · Post by **desktopsimmer** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:06 pm

Vertigo wrote:I think a lot of people are taking this way too seriously and have way too much time !

I have far too much time outside Lowlands races, None for a race

when lowlands are running I'm usually stuck at work/traffic, its a real struggle to get home quickly enough for a race. Darn this English winter traffic

Slow_and_Low · Post by **Slow_and_Low** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:40 pm

One of the technical issues is that I have to press buttons to send out the mails to over 300 persons. Also splitting the two messages (raceinfo with passwords etc and briefing) is not favourable for my time to spend.
Another issue is that if something goes wrong in sending the messages (happened already many times!!) there is no time left to rapair it and try again.
The tasks to the servers have to be send out as well, and this also takes time.
Also private life (which we still try to have) gets in the way sometimes.
That's why we send out these messages on the evening before.

I personaly think the briefing is a nice part of the LLC and would find it a pitty if this would be taken out. If people want to study the map and fly around a little bit in that area, be my guest. The weather is unknown till you join anyhow, so the advantage (if any) is only very limited.

But 30 minutes in front of the racestart is too close. If you only could wittness the stress at my home before the racestart...

MK · Post by MK » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:59 pm

I lack for weather forecast in e-mail, it should available.

I think a lot of people don't have time for training session and it wouldn't be more fairness.

"task training LLC"

What do you think about publishing the taskinformation only 30min before the race to prevent prior-training of the tasks and providing fairness for every pilot?

"task training LLC"