Not fair

Discussion related to the Condor...

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kosmo83
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Not fair

Post by kosmo83 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:04 am

Hi,

in my opinion, the condor-team is not fair to us/me.

In november, I asked, when will V2 will be available, no answer, rumors said christmas.
I just want to know will it be late 2017, spring 2018 or later.

Becouse I wanted to practice some cross-country with condor for the next flying-season, but I don't want to buy twice.

Now, we have end of januar, 3 month later, the winter-season is nearly over, flying seasin begins in 6 to 8 weeks.

Nothing... just gambling by the designers.

Sorry, that's not fair.

If somebody has the balls to say "not before the middle of februar", I bought V1 in november and V2 next winter.
But with the rumors about christmas, what seemed to be good reason for a release, I thought, wait, just 4 weeks.

Sorry, this game is awful!

Just say when it is planed to realease, so I can made my own decisions, but this an awful game you play with me

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UrosM
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Re: Not fair

Post by UrosM » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:27 pm

Before Christmas, for sure :lol:
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Flightbase
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Re: Not fair

Post by Flightbase » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:47 pm

UrosM wrote:Before Christmas, for sure :lol:
Hah, you did not say which year :lol:
The first time you'll get a Microsoft product, that doesn't suck, will be the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.

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EDB
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Re: Not fair

Post by EDB » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:52 pm

kosmo83 wrote:in my opinion, the condor-team is not fair to us/me.
Why is the Condor Team not fair? Did they tell you lies? Did they tell you to wait? I think that if they don't know the date, they can't tell the date. I think you are not fair to the Condor Team now...

Why do you listen to rumors? If you really needed to practice, why did you wait on non-info? Non-info rumored from people who know even less? I think you have been unfair to yourself... Learn to live with it.

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UrosM
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Re: Not fair

Post by UrosM » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:19 pm

Condor price is like a few beers in a pub ...

So, instead of getting drunk twice, you can buy v1 and later v2. It will take some time to get all terrains to v2, so v1 wont be obsolete in the moment when v2 is released.
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Sm4llie
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Re: Not fair

Post by Sm4llie » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Don´t feed the troll. He´s one of the legends (in a negative way) of the segelflug.de forum.

canastel9g
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Re: Not fair

Post by canastel9g » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:12 am

We have the same on Condorsim.fr :wink:

jubari
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Re: Not fair

Post by jubari » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:42 am

EDB wrote:
kosmo83 wrote:in my opinion, the condor-team is not fair to us/me.
Why is the Condor Team not fair? Did they tell you lies? Did they tell you to wait? I think that if they don't know the date, they can't tell the date. I think you are not fair to the Condor Team now...

Why do you listen to rumors? If you really needed to practice, why did you wait on non-info? Non-info rumored from people who know even less? I think you have been unfair to yourself... Learn to live with it.
I want to preface this by saying I clearly distance myself from people like kosmo83 and the related release date drama, but Dec 19th OXO himself replied to kosmos' question with
Just wait a few days.. things will be much clearer.
So yes, the Condor team told him to wait. I understand the entitlement is strong in the gamer community (it's happening for a lot of games/devs right now) but looking at forums/facebook page the Condor Team communication clearly has riled up a vocal minority(?) with the "IRWIR", "we know a release date but we won't tell", "heres some random numbers, go figure" -stuff … again, I try not be part of that crowd but maybe have a look at how ConcernedApe (StardewValley), or the guys behind Factorio, communicate progress/development. And for how to treat people who feel strongly (one way or the other) about your product the mods/devs on /r/escapefromtarkov are the gold standard. I'm mentioning this just to show that there are different paths for small teams to interact with their community.

Anyway, looking forward to V2, the screenshots look great!

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JBr
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Re: Not fair

Post by JBr » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:21 am

The quote from OXO actually referred to the start of the "information campaign".

The numbers in the "number game" or "countdown" never meant days. There were people who enjoyed the countdown, but obviously also people who didn't. The second group was more vocal, so the team decided to stop posting other info until proper news can be announced. And suddenly the same people who sh*tstormed about the countdown sh*tstorm about it not being anymore.

It seems to me that people are forgetting one important thing -- although there is a slightly bigger team supporting the two "core developers", the main body of work still rests on their shoulders and only one of the core is actually doing the coding of the whole Condor engine. You cannot speed up things when it comes to trouble, as you can hardly commit more people to the job.

I really understand why no release date is given. If you promise some date and keep pushing hard to release in time, you may overlook something and it will backfire at you. If you promise a date and then delay the release because of some problems, it will backfire at you again. And I'd bet the same people who would be whining about releasing a program with some bugs (nothing like a bug-less program exists anyway) would also be the ones to whine if the release is postponed... This is a fight you simply can't win.
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jcomm
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Re: Not fair

Post by jcomm » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:04 am

José Oliveira
Hey you Chicks flying bricks....
Come Fly Gliders ! Be Outsiders!

Regex
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Re: Not fair

Post by Regex » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:44 pm

I want to preface this by saying I clearly distance myself from people like kosmo83 and the related release date drama, but Dec 19th OXO himself replied to kosmos' question with
Just wait a few days.. things will be much clearer.
So yes, the Condor team told him to wait. I understand the entitlement is strong in the gamer community (it's happening for a lot of games/devs right now) but looking at forums/facebook page the Condor Team communication clearly has riled up a vocal minority(?) with the "IRWIR", "we know a release date but we won't tell", "heres some random numbers, go figure" -stuff … again, I try not be part of that crowd but maybe have a look at how ConcernedApe (StardewValley), or the guys behind Factorio, communicate progress/development. And for how to treat people who feel strongly (one way or the other) about your product the mods/devs on /r/escapefromtarkov are the gold standard. I'm mentioning this just to show that there are different paths for small teams to interact with their community.

Anyway, looking forward to V2, the screenshots look great!
This. This is exactly how I feel.

I understand that the devs are doing this in their free time and that it's a lot of work, but as good as the software may be: This is no way of communicating.
Honestly, if there was a competitor to Condor, this would be the point where I'd switch. Because this is ridiculous. And I am sure that I'm not the only one feeling like this.

Fortunately for the devs there is no competitor.

primitive_6
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Re: Not fair

Post by primitive_6 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:19 pm

I know that feeling guys...but don't forget that the developing of condor is part time job for the developers. You should be happy that they are going to release a new version.
There are a lot of things that I cannot also understand, like the fact that they don't share so many information about the developing (especially the moment that there is no any competitor) or they don't tell us the release date but they might have their reasons for these.
So...for now just stop crying and please keep the forum clean from these kind of topics :mrgreen: .

If you want to talk about C2 there are plenty of topics.

Regex
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Re: Not fair

Post by Regex » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:28 pm

primitive_6 wrote:I know that feeling guys...but don't forget that the developing of condor is part time job for the developers. You should be happy that they are going to release a new version.
There are a lot of things that I cannot also understand, like the fact that they don't share so many information about the developing (especially the moment that there is no any competitor) or they don't tell us the release date but they might have their reasons for these.
So...for now just stop crying and please keep the forum clean from these kind of topics :mrgreen: .

If you want to talk about C2 there are plenty of topics.
Condor being developed part time and the way the devs communicate with their community are two completely different topics, one is not an argument justifiying the other.

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SteveK
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Re: Not fair

Post by SteveK » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:27 pm

primitive_6 wrote: ...There are a lot of things that I cannot also understand, like the fact that they don't share so many information about the developing ...
... or they don't tell us the release date but they might have their reasons for these...
The reasons are very simple, and very well founded.

I suspect that they have a vision of the product that they want to create, in particular it's focus. From there would have been a feature set to aim for, and after adding practicality into the equation, a feature set to develop it into the product.

You only need to look at this forum to see that members here have very diverse wishes. Some of the debates have got quite heated. Releasing information into that environment would just have caused more arguments. It would not help the developers - they would already be way down the track of creating their vision, and they'd either have to extend development time to add a feature or make a change that alienated some, and pleased some others, or that departed from their vision. They'd also be tied up in tending this forum rather than actually developing.

Recent experience is that they cannot even post a fun countdown without the dissenters wrecking things. So keeping silent is the best option.

OXO has explained why they have not publicised the actual release date. Clearly, they still have work to do before release - they have (maybe had?) a date they are working to, but anything could go wrong to derail those plans. As such if they mentioned a date and missed it - what would the reaction be here?.

The fact OXO started the countdown, but made it clear that the count was not an even cadence, suggests that they are VERY close to release, just ticking off the last few tasks and wanted to project that proximity, but had to leave themselves a little wiggle room. Personal comment: I just wish the countdown hadn't gone silent when it did... If the timing managed to make one count per day from there, I'd have won the lottery (drat!!!)

I have knowledge of software development (well, over 40 years experience of technology covering electronics, hardware, software, development, comms, internet services provision), and the thought that a couple of core people can bring a project like this to fruition at all is astounding. I'm not at all surprised of the difficulty of projecting the development timescale over the past couple of years.

Anyway - It'll be ready when its ready - let's leave them to it... Not long now... I'm sure it will be great.(now where's the 'fingers crossed' smiley!)

kosmo83
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Re: Not fair

Post by kosmo83 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:45 pm

I bought V1 now so, V2 is not important anymore, maybe next winter

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