Condor 2.0? honesty please

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Sephiroth0014
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Sephiroth0014 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:05 am

Should I... Shloud I not...

OK, just for information......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roRm1I8CpbY

Of course, VR isn't my priority, but the point of this video is to talk about flight of 2 hours and more...
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Flightbase
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Flightbase » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:15 am

Flightbase wrote:btw.: will there (finally) be native dedicated unix servers? :?:
No answer so far - so is it at least planed for the future?
The first time you'll get a Microsoft product, that doesn't suck, will be the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.

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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by OXO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:34 am

Flightbase wrote:
Flightbase wrote:btw.: will there (finally) be native dedicated unix servers? :?:
No answer so far - so is it at least planed for the future?
I do not know, but I think it's been requested before.


The question is really, is it a good use of our time to do it when there are many other features we could be spending our resource on?
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Regex » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:45 am

OXO wrote:
Flightbase wrote:
Flightbase wrote:btw.: will there (finally) be native dedicated unix servers? :?:
No answer so far - so is it at least planed for the future?
I do not know, but I think it's been requested before.


The question is really, is it a good use of our time to do it when there are many other features we could be spending our resource on?
Yes.

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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Cadfael » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:51 am

When you are hosting race at the server, you need rent server with windows now, and these servers are more expensive. Most of servers are running unix. So yes, this possibility (if could be) would be great.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by OXO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:06 am

"yes" is not enough to get me to consider this. Justify it !

@Milos
What is the cost difference?
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Tom » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:02 am

99% servers that competition organisers use for hosting their actual sites run on some flavour of unix, which means that to actually run their Condor Dedicated Servers they need to rent at least a windows VPS to run the actual ds clients on. It's not so much a difference about cost of servers but having to rent another sever just for the DS. Take for example vultr.com a reasonable VPS hosting company just adding the windows license adds an extra 16$ a month to the cost compared to a linux server with the same hardware specs.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Cadfael » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:16 am

Windows server I am renting for races is about 200 Euros yearly, + I must pay hosting of unix server for my website too, it is cheaper, about 60 euros yearly. But I have not problem with it, of course. Only this possiblity could be nice to the future.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Flightbase » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:59 pm

OXO wrote:
Flightbase wrote:
Flightbase wrote:btw.: will there (finally) be native dedicated unix servers? :?:
No answer so far - so is it at least planed for the future?
The question is really, is it a good use of our time
I really do think so.
The first time you'll get a Microsoft product, that doesn't suck, will be the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.

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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by turner » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:25 pm

OXO wrote:The question is really, is it a good use of our time to do it when there are many other features we could be spending our resource on?
I think so, and the main reason is the sheer sense of immersion experienced when in VR; to experience the scale of the cockpit, terrain, and weather environment, aside from flying in real life (which I do), there is no better way than VR.

The immersion of VR creates a tangible world in which we fly.

Further, sailing is particularly well suited to VR for a few reasons; first, because so much of sailing doesn't require a high degree of focus inside the cockpit (reading fine detail, interacting with many knobs/buttons like in general aviation powered flight or instrument flight), we're able to participate much more full "outside the cockpit".

I fly VR in X-Plane and Prepar3d as well; while they are nice experiences, sailing requires so much less "in-cockpit" interaction that it becomes a much more fluid and even zenlike experience.

The perception of depth when flying close to steep terrain would also be very welcomed by me, maybe others, too.

I haven't participated in more than a few on-line races, but when you see the other aircraft nearby, it's thrilling; I can only imagine what this would be like in VR.

Also, because so much of Condor relies on physics (rather than a very detailed ground environment), the frame rates likely would be very nice, even on mid-range machines so long as they're capable of running the required VR hardware.

On to business... how many people are interested in VR? I my experience, between what I've read here, and also in regard to X-Plane, Prepar3d, DCS, Combat Air Patrol, Aerofly, and others, it's... many. There are dedicated groups all over the place. It would be great to see Condor appearing in discussions there, and would be excellent promotion.

I don't know the cost of development of VR, but the risk of being leapfrogged by a company that's already developing for VR is real. What about when that happens? Condor is great, but what happens when Silent Wings offers native Oculus support?

Case in point:

https://youtu.be/SUENnEvPym0?t=6m3s

Adding well-executed VR support for Oculus and Vive isn't just a cool feature - it's going to be necessary to stay relevant.

Condor has some strengths that already make it a great sim; it feels to me like the value added by adding VR support is immediate, and would set it apart from other soaring sims. This would translate into new marketshare of customers that are specifically looking for the VR experience.
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JBr
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by JBr » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:30 pm

turner wrote:
OXO wrote:The question is really, is it a good use of our time to do it when there are many other features we could be spending our resource on?
I think so...
You are answering to wrong question, OXO asked about unix dedicated server, not VR.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by xavierpitz » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:59 pm

OXO wrote:"yes" is not enough to get me to consider this. Justify it !

@Milos
What is the cost difference?

Hello OXO,

The cost of the Windows Server licence is 30€ / month.
You can see this here : https://www.online.net/en/dedicated-ser ... ing-system

It represents for some low-end (but good enough to run a condor server on them) servers a huge amount of the monthly server price.
They are some basic dedicated servers that you can rent for 6€ / month so the windows server licence multiplies its cost by a factor of 6.
Even for mid range dedicated servers that cost 15€ / month it is a factor of 3.

https://www.kimsufi.com/fr/serveurs.xml
https://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server

What I did in the past (at the time I was playing Condor V1, so it was 10 years ago) to mitigate the costs of my dedicated server, I installed the condor server instance into a Windows XP VirtualBox VM inside of my Linux Ubuntu Server.
Now I'm relatively confident that you can do the same nowadays with Condor 2 on a Windows 10 VM inside a KVM VM on Linux.

The thing is... Well it's a lot of hassle to get around the Condor Server "only available for windows because nobody really cares" rule...


For sure I also would be interested by a native port of the Condor Server part into Linux.

PS : Do not delay the release of V2.0, you can implement this is V2.1 ;)


Xavier
Last edited by xavierpitz on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by Flightbase » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:27 pm

JBr wrote:
turner wrote:
OXO wrote:The question is really, is it a good use of our time to do it when there are many other features we could be spending our resource on?
I think so...
You are answering to wrong question, OXO asked about unix dedicated server, not VR.
I know it was about unix servers. And I think it`s worth putting efford into unix servers.
The first time you'll get a Microsoft product, that doesn't suck, will be the day they start producing vacuum cleaners.

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JBr
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by JBr » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:49 pm

Flightbase wrote:I know it was about unix servers. And I think it`s worth putting efford into unix servers.
I know :) I was reacting to turner's long VR post.
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Re: Condor 2.0? honesty please

Post by turner » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:38 am

Whoops! That's what I get for jumping back and forth through a long thread :)

Well... I'll go through it again... but is there some definitive answer as to VR?
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