Some newbie comments about Condor.

[Andy1248]

Moke is not getting confused by being too high on tow and the plane disappearing beneath the glider is he?

Could provide the illusion that he is overtaking the tug.

[EDB]

Maybe Moke has flown with a longer towcable in Real Life. The shorter the cable, the faster is the slingshot effect...

[Polewka]

Moke, can you provide us some screenshots, or even better, a short video of your tow? Freebird can also make a nice video of how to make a tow... He is an ace of nice videos...

Cya

[Tima (TSD)]

... or even better, a short video of your tow?...

Replay file is much easier.

[Moke]

Moke is not getting confused by being too high on tow and the plane disappearing beneath the glider is he?

Could provide the illusion that he is overtaking the tug.

No, the problem of over running the tug for me is most pronounced when making turns behind the tug. The steeper the turn the more pronounced the tendency. Unlike real life I have found that the simulation is also very unforgiving of being even a little off to the outside or inside of the turn. (not necessarily a bad thing...) Putting out airbrakes causes the tendency to overrun the tug to dramatically lessen. The air brakes seem to simulate the additional rope tension found in a real tow more effectively.

I noticed this thread was started by a high time glider pilot who experienced similar tendencies. Certainly he and I might share fresh and useful insights having just come from RL to the Condor Simulator for the first time.

However.....

My current set up is a Logitech G940 stick, rudders and throttle. Throttle configured to simulate airbrakes. I certainly understand that between my particular hardware configuration combined with my personal expectations of sensitivity inside Condor can account for much.

I do appreciate very much the time and concern that the Condor Team has put into my query. It bodes well for the future.

Mike

[OXO]

Here's a replay showing some of the aerotow errors, and some exercises. Note that I didn't overtake the tug at any point, and I didn't use airbrakes on tow.

I'm sure some of the more experienced members here will enjoy pointing out my mistakes

[jjmaloss]

About thermals, I totally agree with OXO. Except if they are generated by a ridge, they are vertical.

I think that the rope is too short. A normal rope is supposed to be 70 metres long. Controlling the glider with a longer rope is easier. May be the rope length (and strength) should be adjustable parameters.

When the glider goes too high in tow, it converts kinetic energy into height. Thus, it should slow down and not overtake the tug. When the glider dives, a bow will develop and the tug will temporarily not being pulling the glider anymore.Therefore, I think that the tow model is incorrect. Is the glider model a 6 DOF model?

I played a bit with FlightGear and I am not exactly pleased with this software. A glider is supposed to be stable. When I start the flight from the air, the glider is uncontrollable and has divergent oscillations. By comparison, the glider behaviour in Condor is much more realistic.

I hope that my comments will help.

[OXO]

When the glider goes too high in tow, it converts kinetic energy into hight. Thus, it should slow down and not overtake the tug.

That is correct, except it cannot slow down because it is connected to the tug by the rope.

When the glider dives, a bow will develop and the tug will temporarily not being pulling the glider anymore.

Yes, this happens in Condor.

[Freebird]

A normal rope is supposed to be 70 metres long

I raised this a few years ago & from other pilots comments it seems there is no 'normal' length when talking globally, it was too short for me but correct for some.

[Freebird]

Tried hard with the Fox & this is the best I can do

Shot13.jpg

Not as close as it looks, trick of the camera anyway here's a replay that starts with a normal tow then some playing around going out of position, got bored so did some rolls (not very good ones) on tow which didn't amuse the tow pilot so he ditched me. Ends with a formation landing

Aerotow abuse.zip

[Treepmeyer]

I too have had considerable trouble maintaining control on tow - very unrealistic. RL control on tow is easy; I have to work really hard to stay on tow in Condor. If I had the same trouble on tow in RL as in Condor I would not fly.

[Russell]

Hi,
well i have been aerotowing with no problem in condor.I took my 1st RL areotow and did it all myself,the instructor could not believe i had never done this before and never had a pupil who did the whole tow without a problem.I normaly winch but thanks to condor i have saved quite a few quid learning to aerotow yes condor aint perfect but who give a shite i fly condor because i have fun the same reason i fly RL.My only problem is that Condor aint got a Ka6 but then i just go to the field and fly a real one.
I do think that some folks should just mellow and enjoy Condor for what it is, if you want a sim that is the same as RL that is easy just go and fly a real glider Simples.

[Olympia]

Well speaking as an instructor, you were very lucky to have had a tow in conditions that were so benign that your Condor flying read across. I have to say Condor is not simulating aero-towing all that well, and it will give a misleading impression of the RL situation in many cases. The ground run in particular is most unrealistic with the need to keep the tail on the deck to hold direction at the start. It is wildly out of realism in crosswinds as you will discover the first time you have to deal with one RL. If you did a Condor take off in RL and I was in the back seat with you, you would be going round again to get your technique tidied up I can tell you. I think a fair bit of the problem is the ultra short tow rope in Condor which tends to make any slight deviation in alignment much worse. Why we cannot have a normal length baffles me as it doesn't cost anymore for virtual rope. Also always using the belly hook is something most people would avoid if possible. Roll on V.2 where I hope these things will be fixed.

I have 1500+ tows in my book RL in case you think I don't know what I am talking about.

[Freebird]

Modern glider with a rubber tail skid can have a problem with crosswinds on tow, with a tailwheel keeping the wheel on the ground until the rudder becomes effective gives you a straight roll in crosswinds. Old wooden gliders have barn door rudders compared to modern gliders & they become effective at much lower speeds. Condor behaves a bit like you have a tailwheel although you have a rubber skid on most of the Condor gliders.

Tow rope length has been debated before, its much shorter than the 'normal' UK rope but from what I remember different nationalities had different opinions on what was 'normal'.

[Olympia]

Tow rope length has been debated before, its much shorter than the 'normal' UK rope but from what I remember different nationalities had different opinions on what was 'normal'.

The only time I had a short rope was on a cross country retrieve. 100ft rope with a Tiger in front, 20 miles home - very exciting. Getting out of the field was interesting - we turned at 25-30 ft to miss the trees.