Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by OXO » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:01 pm

bluefang wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:56 pm
Airport textures for runways. I believe currently that runways are meant to be textured by the global texture tile - however, this is not really high enough resolution for realistic looking runways. As has been mentioned, there are work arounds - but it would be awesome if we could apply a real texture to our runway / airport objects.

That is incorrect. Just look at the runways in Slovenia, especially Lesce-Bled. The Asphalt is made with a high resolution tiled texture overlaid on the terrain. This is the Condor 2 way to make quality airports, and is described in detail in the CLT guide.



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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by bluefang » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:37 am

OXO wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:01 pm
bluefang wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:56 pm
Airport textures for runways. I believe currently that runways are meant to be textured by the global texture tile - however, this is not really high enough resolution for realistic looking runways. As has been mentioned, there are work arounds - but it would be awesome if we could apply a real texture to our runway / airport objects.
That is incorrect. Just look at the runways in Slovenia, especially Lesce-Bled. The Asphalt is made with a high resolution tiled texture overlaid on the terrain. This is the Condor 2 way to make quality airports, and is described in detail in the CLT guide.
Sorry I wasn't quite clear - what I was trying to request was a way to make hi-res non-tiled, non-shared, non asphalt-like textures - i.e., mixture of dirt and patches of grass.

I agree the current method is ok for uniform runways - but most runways are not uniform - their are oil discolorations, skid marks, etc.
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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by OXO » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:28 am

bluefang wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:37 am
OXO wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:01 pm
bluefang wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:56 pm
Airport textures for runways. I believe currently that runways are meant to be textured by the global texture tile - however, this is not really high enough resolution for realistic looking runways. As has been mentioned, there are work arounds - but it would be awesome if we could apply a real texture to our runway / airport objects.
That is incorrect. Just look at the runways in Slovenia, especially Lesce-Bled. The Asphalt is made with a high resolution tiled texture overlaid on the terrain. This is the Condor 2 way to make quality airports, and is described in detail in the CLT guide.
Sorry I wasn't quite clear - what I was trying to request was a way to make hi-res non-tiled, non-shared, non asphalt-like textures - i.e., mixture of dirt and patches of grass.

I agree the current method is ok for uniform runways - but most runways are not uniform - their are oil discolorations, skid marks, etc.

Please read the CLT guide. We have discolourations and skid marks covered using an overlaid "muck" texture.

It would be impossible to have hires non tiled textures for runways.. just go calculate how large the texture file would be!
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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by Jan Oorthuijsen » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:13 am

Hi, Bleufang

Just an example what you can do with muck texture
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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by bluefang » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:23 pm

I think I have figured out where my confusion is coming from, and I thought I would chime in to relay this information so that hopefully the next iteration of the CLT Guide can be a bit clearer.

In the chapter about G and O files, there is a section that says the material texture of the Grass object is ignored by the game. Here is the exact quote from the manual:
To properly show the grass effect, the object needs to be applied UVW mapping. This procedure is
different in each modelling application. Depending on application used, UVW mapping can be done
with or without a real texture assigned to the object. The texture assigned to the object is ignored in
game and default grass effect texture is used
The section that talks about the Asphalt object doesn't give much additional information on the G object - but does state :
However, the detailed surface structure is shown in the same style as for grass and the same UVW mapping process applies there
too.
In my head, I took this to mean that the texture assigned to the Asphalt object was ignored / not used - and the only thing used was the game's internal tiled asphalt texture.

The reality is a little more complicated - and I am still not quite sure of the details, but I found out by accident that if you give the Asphalt object an actual material texture , it is indeed used by the game - and this texture is what is used to produce the "Muck" texture on the Slovenia runways.

What I am not clear on is how this texture is composited with the internal tiled asphalt texture. Is there a way to specify the opacity of the assigned material texture - or is this hard coded by the game engine Is this "Muck" texture covered in the Guide? I was not able to find any info.

This seems like a area where the next version of the manual could offer much more information and clarity.

Also, in "reverse engineering" some of the Slovenia airports, I noticed that there are some really awesome and interesting objects included in the Airport O files for Slovenia. I think I have read that we are free to reuse Slovenia landscape objects - but these objects embedded in the airport O files are not accessible. Are there any plans on adding these objects to the Scenery database - or maybe making the .obj files available so we can extract the objects that match our scenery?

I'm making progress.

I am now even able to take-off and land on my airport's silly sloped runway - though there is still quite a bit of bouncing going on.

Oh, and one more request... I find the deciduous trees used by the forest map to be way too short for the area I am trying to model. We get some pretty dang HUGE trees - looking outside my window right now, most trees are in the 80-100 foot tall range - i.e., our trees are way taller than our houses - so a way to specify the scale of trees would be awesome - just like we can scale individual landscape objects.
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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by bluefang » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:34 pm

Ok, after two weeks or so of landscape development, I am getting the hang of things and have developed quite a solid workflow.

I am working on a scenery in an area that is infamous for fall foliage colors - The Blue Ridge Parkway - and it would be super awesome to have the tree texture picked randomly from a folder of textures if there are more than one tree texture. Maybe even with the naming of the texture indicating the probability of that texture being applied to a tree.

With the current setup, I guess we can get two distinct colors - but we have to use b files for one color and s files for another, but fall foliage comes in way more than two different colors.

Here is a sneak-peek of one of the sceneries I am working on - the ridges of the Appalachian mountains between NC & VA (don't make fun of our mountain heights - we didn't ask for short mountains - its just what we got) :
BlueRidgePkwy-NCI-Ridge.jpg
How awesome would it be to fly around in a scenery with beautiful fall foliage colors, like these:
WEB_NCE_Blue-Ridge-PKWY_Splash-Image_1.jpg
asheville-north-carolina-fall-leaves-peak-colors-change-blue-ridge-parkway-drive-03.jpg
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Re: Photoreal, Detailed Airports and forest

Post by GregHart1965 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:49 pm

dgtfer wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:02 am
GregHart1965 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:00 am
Ground resolution - C2 seems to be able to handle very large .dds files easily. I have used 8192x8192 dds patches and C2 does not even blink at the high resolution. Im fairly sure it would handle single 16384x16384 dds patches easily too (IE 3 times the resolution of C1 due to 768 terragen in C2 and only 256 terragen in C1). This gives a very crisp image which if used cleverly with grass and asphalt surfaces can look really cool.
Yes 16384 dds could work, but they are 35cm per pixel, and that's still a bit coarse for very close texturing, and if applied to the whole dds tile we've got a humongous size just for one tile (about 333 MB!) It would be better to apply these very high def textures only to a selected part of the airfield surrounding.
Yes the files are huge and there are diminishing gains the higher you go in resolution. Personally I feel a lot was lost when the new method of construction for C2 was implemented. There is only the choice of two generic textures with no possibility of creating custom textures nor is there ay way of creating say a tarmac runway surrounded by grass in ultra high definition which was easy to achieve in C1 by creating surfaces and writing them into the "G" file. Add to this the loss of the special effects of emission statements that created glow-in-the-dark effects (allowing the creation of street lamps, windows that lit up, runway markings that lit up etc.) and we now are stuck with a package that is rather boring and stilted for the creator to work with.

I would rather have seen more creative opportunities than less!! This insistence on creating a proprietary format, rather than simply paying for the licence to use Autodesk tools has done Condor a great disservice. Other things that irritate me is the choice of .BLT terrrain files - all of the files in this format are very old and in the case of my home country have huge holes in the data making them completely unusable. The argument that the game needs to be kept small and simple to work for online racing doesnt seem to me to hold water - if all that is being communicated is the position of the aircrafts then what difference does it make how complex or large the game engine is as it is not being communicated online.

I have completely lost interest in Condor since C2 came out. It does not work at all on my small laptop, The creative tools are limiting (more so than C1). The terrain file format sucks eggs. It is not suited to photorealistic landscapes - which is ridiculous because who actually has the original Terragen for Condor? It is not available any more, has not been for years. I really dont understand why the game creators have made it this way - very disappointing all in all.

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